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How to Look for Work After Age 50, with Kerry Hannon

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It is illegal for an employer to discriminate based on age. But many job seekers over the age of 50 will tell you it happens every day.

Older workers stay out of work longer and may earn less than in previous jobs when they do return to the workforce. According to AARP the average period of unemployment for people 55 years and older is 54.3 weeks, almost twice as long as the 28.2 weeks younger workers spend job hunting.

So how, exactly, are you supposed to find a new job or make a career change at 50, 60 or beyond?

This week on Find Your Dream Job, we explore the challenges of job hunting when you’re 50+. We talk with Kerry Hannon, a career and personal finance expert who has written extensively on the subject.

Kerry shares practical, actionable tips older jobseekers can use to overcome age bias and find a job they love.

This Week’s Guest

Kerry Hannon is a nationally recognized expert on career transitions, personal finance and retirement especially for older women. She is a frequent television and radio commentator and a contributor to the New York Times, Money Magazine, Forbes, and the PBS website nextavenue.org.

Kerry is also the author of ten books including Getting the Job You Want after 50, What’s Next?: Finding Your Passion and Your Dream Job in Your Forties, Fifties and Beyond, and the national bestseller Great Jobs for Everyone 50+: Finding Work That Keeps you Happy and Healthy and Pays the Bills.

Resources from this Episode

Transcript

Mac Prichard:

This is Find Your Dream Job, the podcast that helps you get hired and have the career you want and make a difference in life. I’m Mac Prichard, your host and publisher of Mac’s List. I’m joined by my co-host Ben Forstag, managing director of Mac’s List, and this week’s special co-host, coaching consultant Michelle Hines of Michelle Hines.com. Ben, Michelle welcome.

Ben Forstag:

Thanks Mac.

Michelle Hynes:

Thanks Mac.

Mac Prichard:

It’s good to have you both here. Our show is brought to you by our book, Land Your Dream Job in Portland and Beyond. To learn more about the book and the updated edition we published on February 1st visit macslist.org/book.

Ben Forstag:

Hey Mac, Ben here. I wanted to share a quick story with you. Last week Mac’s List hosted an event with Portland State University for people interested in social work. One of the attendees of this event, her name is Mary, she bought a copy of our book Find Your Dream Job and she just sent me the following e-mail. It says: I felt a little stuck in my career knowing it wasn’t heading in the direction I wished. I was starting to feel a bit demoralized, to be honest. However after the panel presentation and meet-and-greet last week, I now feel energized, hopeful and driven to begin working toward a new meaningful career. I bought the book you wrote and wow–I wish I had had this 10 years ago! I am learning so much.

Mac Prichard:

Wow! It’s very gratifying and humbling to hear that Ben. Two thoughts come to mind as you share that story. One, the reason we do events like this in Portland is to connect directly with our readers and listener–the people in our community. Because we learn so much from them about their needs and what matters and what kind of help and assistance they’re looking for in their job search.

The second thought that comes to mind is the book itself. One of the reasons we put it together was to help people with their search and it was based again on what people were telling us were some of the common challenges they were facing. You can find all the content in the book on our blog and that’s free. We wanted to make it as easy as possible, so people who do buy the book will find 3 years of blog post compressed into one chapter volume which is easy to read. We hope it will be as helpful to other listeners as it has been to Mary. Mary thank you for sharing that note. See for yourself visit Macslist.org/book.

Mac Prichard:

It’s illegal for an employer to discriminate based on age but job seekers over the age of 50 will tell you it happens every day. Older workers stay out of work longer and may earn less then previous jobs when they do return to the workforce. According to the AARP–that’s the American Association of Retired Persons–the average period of unemployment for people 55 years and older is 54.3 weeks, almost twice as long as the 28 weeks younger workers spend job-hunting.

This week on Find Your Dream Job we’re talking about looking for work after the age of 50. Ben Forstag has a website you can use to relaunch your job hunt or your career if you’re 50 or older. Our special guest host Michelle Hines answers a question from a listener about how much homework job seekers of any age should expect employers to require. Finally, I interview this week’s guests expert Kerry Hannon, author of Getting The Job You Want After 50.

We know from our audience surveys that baby boomers, people born between the years 1945 and 1965, make up the second largest group of Macslist.org readers. Michelle, Ben I’m curious what are some of the common concerns you hear about job hunting from people older than 50?

Michelle Hynes:

One of the things I hear Mac is about reporting to a younger boss. I think it’s really important for people to be aware that they’re going to be working in a multi-generational environment and to be prepared to give examples of how they’ve done that successfully.

Mac Prichard:

Any tips about if it’s the first time you’ve worked for someone younger than you how to approach that?

Michelle Hynes:

I think that communication is key. Just asking questions about how that person likes to communicate, how often, in what mode and just keeping a dialogue open so that you can develop a good partnership with your new supervisor.

Mac Prichard:

I think that’s a great advice for building a relationship with any supervisor. Ben what about you when you’re out there at events or in the community what do you hear from readers and listeners?

Ben Forstag:

Well I talk to a lot of people who say that they experience real or perceived age discrimination.  I think where that comes from is they just feel that they can’t even get their foot in the door in organizations because their resume says that they’re 40 or 50 years old. Employees don’t want to hire someone that old because there are perceived issues with older workers. Again, I don’t know if this is real or just perceived but definitely in the job seeker’s mind this is a barrier for them entering the workforce.

Mac Prichard:

There is certainly research out there that shows that it takes longer for older workers to find their next job. I think you’re raising a concern I hear a lot from readers and listeners. What is your advice about how best to address that?

Ben Forstag:

I think there are a lot of different tactics you can take to kind of hide your age on your resume and I have mixed feelings about that. You can not put the years that you graduated college, for example, or take some other dates off your resume. You hear some other tips like don’t have a yahoo.com email address. I’m not sure how effective those things are. My advice for anyone who believes that they’re running up against that barrier of ageism, is to embrace how old you are. You can’t do anything to change that but you can market yourself around your age. If you have the right skill set and you have the right mentality to work, and you have the right approach to working with colleagues–even younger colleagues–I think you can market yourself for a solution for any organization that’s out there. You just need to know that you’re going to have to jump over that hurdle of age.

Mac Prichard:

Michelle anything that you would like to add?

Michelle Hynes:

Just emphasize what Ben just said you want to market your strengths and your experience is one of your strengths.

Mac Prichard:

Great tips. Let’s turn to Ben every week he’s out there exploring the Internet looking for resources and tools that you can use that can be Blogs, podcast, books you never know what we’re going to get. Ben what have you discovered for us this week?

Ben Forstag:

This week I want to introduce our listeners to a term I discovered in doing research for this show. That term is “re-launcher,” which is used to describe older professionals to looking to restart or reinvigorate their careers–typically after the age of 50. Now this I admit is a term I’ve never come across until this week. Is this is a term you’ve heard of Mac or Michelle?

Michelle Hynes:

Not me I can’t wait to hear more.

Mac Prichard:

Yeah it’s a new one to me as well.

Ben Forstag:

My resource this week is actually a website dedicated entirely to helping re-launchers, and it is called, appropriately enough, iRelaunch, “I” like iPhone relaunch.com. This site is a real soup-to-nuts resource for any older professional looking to get back into the workforce. They provide a lot of resources, including strategies for relaunching your career, networking opportunities for older job seekers, a recruitment section where you can upload your resume, educational conferences and job fairs with organizations specifically looking for more seasoned professionals, and other tools. iRelaunch also sells consulting services to job seekers needing additional assistance and organizations that are looking to add that to add veteran talent to the roster. This is an organization that does a lot of different things.

Mac Prichard:

I’m intrigued, Ben, by the information that they provided about job hunting because I think one of the challenges for people ages 50 and older–and I speak as someone who is 57–is learning how to job hunt and the skills and strategies that served us well 20, 30 years ago just aren’t as effective as they were back in the Reagan and first Bush Administrations.

Ben Forstag:

Definitely. And one aspect of iRelaunch that I want to call attention to is their list of jobs internships and educational programs for re-launchers. This is kind of a response to people who say “well organizations just don’t want to hire older folks.” This is a list of organizations who are explicitly looking to bring in older employees. If you feel like you’re coming up against that barrier these are the kind of organizations you might be looking for. There’s this thing called a relaunchship which is, essentially, a paid internship for older workers looking to get updated experience in the new field. iRelaunch.com list several dozen employers around the world who offer these relaunch ships.

The site also includes unpaid volunteer opportunities where you can refresh your skills and better position yourself for future employment. Now the list is not huge there aren’t thousands of organizations there, it’s maybe four or five dozen but these opportunities do exist and I think that’s the value of the site that shows that there are organizations out there and creates a lexicon around this kind of opportunity for older workers that I think is really valuable.

If I was in your position, Mac, and looking for a new job, I would go out there I would check out iRelaunch.com and see what some of these programs look like and then start doing a focused search in my own community whether there are other organizations that offer these programs for older folks. Again the site is iRelaunch.com and as always I will include the URL in the show notes.

Mac Prichard:

Great it sounds like a great resource Ben thanks for bringing that forward. Do you have a suggestion for Ben an idea or either a book or podcast that has been helpful to you and your job search. Please write him his address is Ben@macslist.org. We may share your idea on a future show. Now it’s time to hear from you our listeners, our guest co-host this week Michelle Hynes joins us to answer one of your questions. Michelle what do you hear from our listeners this week?

Michelle Hynes:

We have a question about interviewing practices. This week’s question comes from or listener Ryan Ritter.

“I have a question about interviewing practices. My current employer assigns homework to job applicants that make the short list. This is a small task that reflects the kind of work that they would do on the job. Do many organizations do this? Is it a growing trend?”

This is a great question and I think it speaks to something Mac that you just talked about which is learning to job hunt in the 21st century. This is a growing trend and I think it’s a good one both for employers and for job seekers. It’s because it gives an opportunity for the hiring manager to understand how the candidate will approach a particular task. It can give you concrete, current examples of how someone problem solves, what kinds of skills they bring to a writing assignment or crafting a tweet or writing talking points for a speech.

There are two things from the question that I want to emphasize. One is that it’s a relatively small task that it takes an hour or two let’s say and that it does genuinely reflect the kind of work that you’ll expect the person to do on the job.

Mac Prichard:

We’ve certainly done writing test and had people go through exercises like presentations at my other company Prichard Communications and I think for those of us who work in communications or perhaps in journalism, this is an old experience. It certainly hasn’t been uncommon to be asked to take a writing test because employers in the communications world have always wanted to see what you can do and to have you show it rather than just talk about it. I will say one of the concerns I’ve heard over the years from people in the public relations world is they have created products and then later seen those products or those ideas used by employers who didn’t give them the job. Certainly that’s a problem. I don’t think of very ethical practice at all.

Michelle Hynes:

I think it’s really important to make a distinction between something that you’re using as part of an interview process, like you would checking references or seeing someone multiple times, and actually asking for unpaid work. I think that’s a good concern to bring up.

Ben Forstag:

I know in some fields, particularly in the legal field where you get this homework before they bring you into the firm, oftentimes they’ll make this a paid project. They’ll pay you an hourly rate to do this and if they end up using the resource for whatever you’ve been compensated for that ahead of time.

Michelle Hynes:

It can really vary by industry.

Mac Prichard:

Thank you Michelle, if you have a question for us please e-mail us at communitymanager@macslist.org. These segments with Ben and Michelle are sponsored by the 2016 edition of Land Your Dream Job in Portland and Beyond. We’ve made our book even better we’ve added new content and we’re offering it in the formats you told us you wanted. For the first time this year you can read Land Your Dream Job in Portland and Beyond as a paperback or you can download it onto your Kindle, your Nook or your iPad. Whatever the format our goal is the same. We want to give you the tools and tips you need to get meaningful work that makes a difference. For more information about the book visit Macslist.org/book.

Mac Prichard:

Now let’s turn to this week’s guest expert, Kerry Hannon. Kerry Hannon is a nationally recognized expert on career transitions, personal finance and retirement especially for older women. She is a frequent television and radio commentator and a contributor to the New York Times, Money Magazine, Forbes, and the PBS website nextavenue.org. Kerry is also the author of ten books including Getting the Job You Want after 50, What’s Next, Finding Your Passion and Your Dream Job in Your Forties, Fifties and Beyond, and the national bestseller Great Jobs for Everyone 50+: Finding Work That Keeps you Happy and Healthy and Pays the Bills. Kerry thank you for joining us.

Kerry Hannon:

Well thank you for inviting me to be here it’s terrific.

Mac Prichard:

Let’s talk about age discrimination for older workers. How serious a problem is that?

Kerry Hannon:

Well the truth is ageism is alive and well in the workplace. And although it is illegal. It is something that you just can’t simply escape as much as you try. I think it is definitely a challenge for older workers, but I speak a lot to audiences over 50. And I say “It is okay”. Yes, it exists, but there are things you can do to fight back.

Mac Prichard: Why do you think some employers are reluctant to hire people age 50 and up?

Kerry Hannon:

Well there are a couple of clear things that they see as obstacles and I’ll just tick through them very quickly. The first one is that number one they feel that you’re not up for the job. That you don’t have the stamina for the job. Number two, they think that you perhaps are not up to speed with technology, that you’re not willing to learn new things that you’re kind of stuck in your ways. Number three they worry that you’re too expensive, that your salary demands are more than they care to meet at this time and they’re concerned about the health benefits maybe more because of your age.

They worry that you won’t play well with the other kids. What I mean by that is that you might not get along so well in a culture where you’re reporting to younger bosses and so forth. Those are just a couple of the big pieces that concern them and each of these are individual. Those are stereotypes but in fact some of it may very well be true for some workers. Since it is a case-by-case thing, I really encourage people to think of ways we can fight back at each of those things to prove them wrong.

Mac Prichard:

Let’s talk about that and I know we don’t have time to go through each item on that list but what are some of the top things that older workers can do to work against those stereotypes and present themselves as successful candidates?

Kerry Hannon:

I have to tell you my absolute favorite thing to tell people is when I’m speaking to groups and I’ll get folks come up to me after my talk and a lot of times it’s women saying should I dye my hair, should I get BOTOX and I’m like no get a fitness program. What I say is when you are physically fit and I don’t mean running fast miles and bench pressing a lot. But if you can’t swim or I walk my dog whatever it is you do to get a sense of some semblance of physical fitness. I’m telling you it’s subtle but they pick up on it. You have this vitality and this vibrancy about you and it shows that in fact you are up for the job. There’s this positive vibe that comes from physically fit people and I think it’s often an employer might not identify what it is but they go hey I want what she has or I want what he has.

I encourage people to get physically fit if they possibly can as a great way to fight back against ageism. Of course if you want to do those other things go ahead and do it but don’t do it the day before the interview.

The second thing I encourage people with technology you can do this. Ramp it up a little bit take the time to take some courses or workshops, make sure you have a LinkedIn profile. You need more than your paper resume these days and if you have a LinkedIn profile and your active in groups on LinkedIn, even if you can get on Twitter and that kind of thing and show that you’re engaged in social media in some way, it really does show employers that you are at ease with technology. Believe me they will Google you that’s what people do so you need to have a footprint somewhere out there whether that’s your LinkedIn profile or some sort of social media presence. I really encourage the LinkedIn profile.

Mac Prichard:

LinkedIn and social media are two things that didn’t exist when most baby boomers first started looking for work. When you think about the job hunting strategies that generations have been using what still works and what doesn’t?

Kerry Hannon:

Number one and you’re going to agree with me on this one it’s networking. Some things never change employers still hire people the way they always have and it’s they hire people they know or people they know know. It’s the sense of who do you know out there and the great thing is that when you’re an older worker, I mean an experienced worker you’ve been in the workplace for a while. You have a lot of contacts and you have a lot more then somebody who’s 20 or 30 so reach out I encourage people to really dig, dig, dig deep to who you might know to help you get your foot in the door.

It really makes a huge difference I’m using that network. Again, if your on social media I actually get to work through my Facebook Network. Amazingly enough people that I worked with 20 years ago have found me on Facebook and have hired me to do work. It’s out there you never know who you’re going to connect with again.

Also not to be afraid to just talk to anybody when you’re looking for work. Some people are a little reserved and maybe a little embarrassed that they’re hunting for work and they don’t want to talk about it or tell people. I know folks who have found … one gentleman in particular got his job he’d been struggling to get in the door he wanted to teach English as a second language. One day his told … his son had a friend over for dinner and he told the friend that he was looking for job and what he was looking for and the kid said hey you should talk to my mom and what do you know he got a job.

Mac Prichard:

I think that’s a great example I know it’s hard for workers of any age sometimes to admit that they’re out of work because so much of our identity can be tied up in our jobs. I do see that job seekers who do what you recommend tell people that they’re looking and what they’re looking for have a lot more success in the long run.

Kerry Hannon:

You know two other things that really are helpful is not to get stuck in a moment. I think a lot of people try to replace what they had and replicate the job that they had before. I really … it’s a very important to sort of do a little soul-searching and look at what are my skills, what are my talents how can I maybe redeploy these in a different field in a different arena. A actually that might be a lot more exciting and fun anyway for you and a lot more challenging and you’ll really love your job. It’s often people want to just keep going back to the same well and I say let’s look at what you really have in your kit here and see how you might shift into a different field.

Often it’s maybe with a non-profit if you get out and do that and again that’s a great job hunting technique, is don’t sit around and just fire off resumes online. Back away from the computer and get out and volunteer. A friend of mine and someone that I’ve worked with a lot often uses this expression, get out of your head and into the world. If you can get out and start engaging and working with nonprofits you’re not only … you might find a job right there and I’m talking skill-based volunteer work.

Or you’re networking you never know who you might meet there who knows of something. Again, it’s just a great way to keep your resume alive, fill in any gaps that you may have when you’re out of work because you could say hey this is what I’ve been doing and again, it could really lead to a job opportunity for you.

The other piece is it’s often very helpful to get together with a job hunting group if there are three or four other people you know who are looking for jobs. I don’t mean a group of one or else you are going to complain, but a couple of people that will keep you accountable to your job search. What did you do this week hey did you hear about this. Because your friends and family get a little sick of you talking about it and hearing about it but if you can have a group of people to support you that is also on this path it’s a really helpful.

Mac Prichard:

Don’t rely on resumes alone and I see so many people make that mistake and I think one of the reasons why is that they are unaware of many of the options that you just laid out which include networking, volunteering, considering working in other sectors, joining a job group. Any other tips Kerry about things that people can do other than sitting down at the computer and grinding out resume after resume?

Kerry Hannon:

Yeah because that’s a black hole. Two other things, one that’s really helpful if you can do this and I think having a career coach and maybe just on a limited basis but if you can … studies have shown that people who especially those over 50 group if you have somebody you connect with who is not an unbiased opinion and a career coach often helps. Sometimes if you can’t afford to hire one you may be able to find one through community colleges or something like that or word of mouth. You may also be able through the federal government Career One Stop Centers often have free career coaching.

What I’m seeing even a limited basis if you can talk to somebody who can really look at your resume for you, look at you and how you present yourself, and take a look and give you a fresh look at what’s going on there because you get so stuck in how you perceive yourself and maybe your immediate circle precedes you. But somebody else can see you in a different light and say hey you should be pushing in this direction.

I think we often get very depressed if we’ve been on the job hunt for a while. This is really self-affirming and a way to feel good about yourself again because someone says hey you’ve got so much going for you so that has been a really great technique in terms of helping people find work. Also don’t be afraid to take a part-time job or a contract just because you’re looking for a full-time job doesn’t mean that you should turn down some sort of intermediate work because again that keeps your resume alive and it keeps you out there using your skills and your networking.

Mac Prichard:

I think that can be challenging for people who are farther along in their career because they may think gosh I shouldn’t have to volunteer or I’ve moved beyond part time work. I see the people that do that who have more success in the long run because they’re getting out of the house and back in the community and they’re doing something in the sector where they want to be.

Kerry Hannon:

I think that’s important and the other piece of it is too the salary piece is huge in many ways because I think we often overestimate what our value is in the marketplace and have unrealistic expectations. It’s perfectly understandable that that would be the case but it often is hard to get that same salary that you had before. Face it I’m not going to sugarcoat that, it really is a huge issue and people will turn down opportunities because they’re waiting and waiting for that right salary to come. They’re insulted by what they’re offered but in fact you may just need to do that and think of ways you can negotiate around it to find the job. If it’s not if you can’t meet that number you want can you get some flex time so that you can telecommute, can you get a little extra vacation time. Are there ways that you can kind of find around the edges in that job that will make it okay for you and you’ll feel relevant and valued if you can negotiate for things beyond salary.

Mac Prichard:

That’s excellent advice Kerry what else would you add for our listeners who are over 50 and looking for work.

Kerry Hannon:

The final thing I would say is you have to believe in yourself. That is hard when you’re out there struggling to find a job and you’re hitting a lot of rejection and I honestly believe you need to have a good circle of people who have your back and believe in you but it’s important you believe in who you are and in yourself. Have some confidence so that when you’re out there in the market do your work, really do your homework. If you want to be in a particular industry go to meetings, go to any kind of function where you might be able to get engaged back in your group and keep your skillset relevant. If you don’t fall behind and don’t apply for jobs that you don’t have the skills for.

If the job description says they want you to have a certification in something, then get it. You’re not going to learn that on the job if they already want it. Really think hard before you send out your applications for something to make sure you really are qualified. The bottom line is what I said right at the start there, it’s important to believe in yourself and know that there is something out there for you.

Mac Prichard:

Thank you Kerry tell us what’s coming up next for you.

Kerry Hannon:

Thank you very much, just more of the same lots of great opportunities to speak to audiences around the country about finding work after 50. I also speak to a lot of women about getting financially empowerment for them and financial security and women over 50 particularly need to pay attention to this. Then of course work and jobs all play into that. More of the same and some great opportunities to write for various outlets and on we go. I really appreciate being on your show today thank you.

Mac Prichard:

Well thank you for joining us Kerry. To learn more about Kerry please visit her website it’s Kerryhannon.com and Kerry is spelled K-E-R-R-Y H-A-N-N-O-N is the last name. That’s Kerryhannon.com or follow her on Twitter and her Twitter handle is @KerryHannon. Kerry Thanks again.

Kerry Hannon:

Thanks very much take good care.

Mac Prichard:

We’re back in the Mac’s List studio with Michelle and Ben, tell me what did you think were the most important points that you heard Kerry make, Michelle?

Michelle Hynes:

I thought there was a lot of great advice but three things really caught my attention. One was what Kerry said about don’t get stuck in a moment. I think that that is important both in terms of not sort of going back to where you were in your career but being able to really look forward. Also what she talked about in terms of continuing to have confidence, not to get stuck in a particular set back. Just to keep moving forward until you land where you want to land.

The other thing that she said that I thought was really important was about your physical and emotional energy. Take a walk with the dog, swim, whatever. Really that will help you present yourself in all of the settings that you’re going to be in including the third thing I would say is network, network, network. It’s not that you just have to have the energy to be in front of someone in an interview setting, but to talk to your son’s friends or people in your faith community or people in your job group. Ben what did you think?

Ben Forstag:

I really liked her point about her accountability and support group. I think that’s probably a good idea for any job seeker whether you’re older than 50 or younger than 50. Because we’ve all been there job-seeking can be pretty lonely especially if you’re stuck in the I’m only applying to things I find online game which again is not winning game. I also really liked her point about make sure that you’re getting out there in the community and you’re going to events and you’re getting the training that you need. I know for some people when I suggest that they say I’m unemployed I don’t have the money to go to conferences. You can volunteer for conferences and often get a lot of the educational value out of them for free if you’re willing to give some of your time to manage the event. Or to do some other volunteer activity there.

I’m reminded of a local job seeker here and Portland who I’ve been talking to for a couple months or so. She’s older than 50, she’s trying to get a job in communications and I’ve seen her at the last three or four events that I’ve gone to including a recent one on search engine marketing. She volunteers, she gets to go to the events, she gets known by the people there and that’s a real calling card for here and the strategy she’s using to find a job. That’s definitely an approach you should think about taking.

Michelle Hynes:

That’s a great example.

Mac Prichard:

Yeah that is a great example because as we’ve talked about before employers tend to hire people they know or who were recommended to them by people they trust. One of the best way to get to know somebody is by working with them and you can do that as a volunteer. The great thing about conferences is they’re projects they have a beginning, a middle and an end and they turn over pretty quickly. Usually there’s an organizing committee that is staffed by leaders in that industry. If you do a good job as a volunteer and connect with those people that’s going to stand you in good stead later down the road. You may be sitting across from them in an interview in a month or two.

Ben Forstag:

Yeah and it just provide you access to all the attendees as well. I don’t think you should go in there and pitch people for a job but it’s an opportunity to introduce yourself, talk to people, find out what’s going on in the community it’s just all around a great opportunity to get yourself out there.

Mac Prichard:

The big take away from me was Kerry’s point step away from the computer. We run a job board at Mac’s List we’re very proud of it and we think it’s an important part of any job search. But most jobs are never advertised so your challenge of the job seeker is to get into that mix and in front of employers and peers who know about those jobs who will tell you about them. Networking, volunteering, telling people that you’re looking are all excellent ways to do it no matter what your age.

Ben Forstag:

Let’s put all the cards on our table here Mac. What percentage of time should the job seeker spend looking for and applying to jobs they found online?

Mac Prichard:

I am a big believer in the 80/20 rule and I think you should spend 20% of your time looking at job boards and 80% networking, volunteering, and talking to people. I get at that figure because nobody knows for certain but the common estimate is that 70 80% of all jobs are never advertised, they’re filled by word of mouth. How are you spending your days if you’re looking for work. You should visit job boards absolutely but you need to do more than that. Thank you both and thank you our listeners, if you like what you hear on the show you can help us by leaving a review and a rating at iTunes. This helps others discover our show and it helps serve you all better.

Let me give you an example of one of the reviews we received recently is from jandrew44 who writes, it’s like a pep talk from your best friend, coffee with a mentor and that colleague that always shares the best career articles all rolled into a commute size podcast. Mac and his team have created a must-listen for anyone who wants to figure out that zone where they’re at their best and then find a job where they can thrive. Whether you’re in a full job seeker mode or just looking to better understand your relationship with work you’ll find something here. I’m hooked and I can’t stop streaming.

Thank you jandrew44 and thanks to the scores of other listeners who have left a review. Please take a moment to leave your own comments and ratings just go to Macslist.org/iTunes. Thanks for listening and we’ll be back next Wednesday for more tools and tips you can use to find your dream job.