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Ask for the Money and Opportunities You Want, with Kate White

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What’s holding you back from the pay raises, promotions, and new work opportunities you really want? For many of us, it’s about a fear of being shot down when we ask for it. On this episode of Find Your Dream Job, our guest Kate White encourages you to raise your hand at work. Ask your boss “what’s missing?” Volunteer for new projects. Document your accomplishments and build a case for the compensation you deserve.

About Our Guest: Kate White

Kate White is the former editor-in-chief of five national magazines, including Cosmopolitan. She’s also The New York Times bestselling author of several career books, including “The Gutsy Girl Handbook: Your Manifesto for Success.” And Kate is also the bestselling author of 12 mysteries and thrillers!

Resources in this Episode:

Transcript

Find Your Dream Job, Episode 139:

Ask for the Money and Opportunities You Want, with Kate White

Airdate: May 16, 2018

Mac Prichard:

Hi, this is Mac of Mac’s List. Find Your Dream Job is presented by Mac’s List, an online community where you can find free resources for your job search plus online courses and books that help you advance your career. My latest book is called Land Your Dream Job Anywhere. It’s a reference guide for your career that covers all aspects of the job search, including expert advice in every chapter. You can get the first chapter for free by visiting macslist.org/anywhere.

This is Find Your Dream Job; the podcast that helps you get hired, have the career you want, and make a difference in life. I’m Mac Prichard, your host and publisher of Mac’s List.

I’m joined by my co-hosts, Becky Thomas and Jessica Black, from the Mac’s List team.

This week, we’re talking about how to ask for the money and the opportunities you want.

You do great work at your job. In fact, you exceed your performance goals. Clients compliment your results but your good work doesn’t lead to big pay raises or promotions. What are you doing wrong?

Our guest expert this week is Kate White, author of the new book, The Gutsy Girl Handbook: Your Manifesto for Success.  She says you can’t rely on good work alone to get the money and the opportunities that you want. She and I talk later in the show.

To negotiate a great salary you need to know what employers pay you for what you do. Becky has found an article with eight online tools you can use to research salaries for your occupation. She tells us more in a moment.

You receive a job offer and accept the employer’s starting wage without negotiation. Now that you’re in the position and the pay seems low based on the actual duties. Can you ask for a new salary or must you wait until your annual review?  That’s our question of the week. It comes from Brooke Jacobs, in Redmond, Oregon. Jessica shares her advice shortly.

Alright, as always, let’s first check in with the Mac’s List team.

Becky, as always, you have spent the past week exploring the internet on behalf of our listeners. We went into some detail, I think, in an episode a few weeks ago, about all your gear.

Becky Thomas:

Oh yeah, so much mining of information throughout the internet.

Mac Prichard:

Yeah.

Becky Thomas:

Been hard at work again this week.

Mac Prichard:

Good.

Jessica Black:

That’s right, it’s a never ending exploration.

Becky Thomas:

Yeah.

Mac Prichard:

Yeah, 24/7. What have you found in all of that poking around in the last week?

Becky Thomas:

Since we’re talking about money on this week’s show, I pulled out a tool that you can use for salary research. Knowing your worth is a huge part of building a successful career, so you really need to do your research about what kind of salary you should ask for, what you should aim for, and what you should negotiate for.  Whether you’re looking for new work, negotiating a starting salary, or ask for a raise. You really have to know what your skills, experience, and expertise are worth to an employer and there are a lot of factors to hone in on: you need to understand your professional market value within your industry, but also in your local city where you live, that can vary a lot depending on your location. As well as your level of experience and your education.

In today’s world, data is everywhere, talking about the internet. There’s so much information out there. You can access really good, solid salary data from a lot of different places, so you have absolutely no excuse for not preparing with good solid research.

We’ve shared salary research guides on Mac’s List before and today I found another comprehensive resource for finding good information and data out there on the internet. I thought this one was good because it’s more than just finding comparable salaries. It’s called The Top 8 Tools You Need to Use for Salary Research from The Job Network, which is a great website with resources for job seekers and employers alike.

This article outlines 8 well-respected tools to use to find out what both what people like you are making out in the marketplace and also information on equal opportunities employment laws and fair pay. There are salary calculators and anonymous survey data from real professionals, from the government as well as different anonymous surveys like GlassDoor, and PayScale, and things like that.

I felt like this was a really comprehensive resource and a really great place to start if you’re thinking about your salary, whether you’re job searching or looking to negotiate for a raise. Go to this resource, you’ll find lots of places to start and get a really good picture of where you should be aiming your salary range.

Jessica Black:

That’s really interesting. I didn’t know about that but I love that because I love… We talk about Glassdoor and Payscale a lot but this is a really good addition to being able to do more research and have more information about what’s out there. That’s great.

Mac Prichard:

Was there one of the eight tools that stood out for you that you really liked?

Becky Thomas:

There was some information about the Equal Opportunities Employment Act, and fair pay, and what you can do if you think you’re being underpaid or unfairly paid. Especially with the gender wage gap and things like that, I thought that was really interesting. A lot of good information.

Jessica Black:

Yeah and what rights we have. That’s great.

Becky Thomas:

Yeah and what to do, how to find out if your employer is paying you unfairly because it’s such a gray area a lot of times when you’re currently employed and you don’t know what your coworkers are making. If you have an idea that you might be making less, what are you supposed to do? There’s some good, hard tools to start to dig into that a little bit, in that difficult situation.

Jessica Black:

Yeah, that’s really interesting. Thank you.

Mac Prichard:

Good. It sounds like a great resource and it’s especially timely given our conversation later in the show with Kate. Thank you, Becky. If  you’ve got a suggestion for Becky and you want to get her out of the internet exploration business a little sooner, please write her. Her email address is info@macslist.org.

Now let’s turn to you, our listeners. Jessica joins us to answer one of your questions. Jessica, what’s in the Mac’s List mailbag this week?

Jessica Black:

Yeah, today we have a question from Brooke Jacobs who wrote to us via email from Redmond, Oregon. I’ll share her question that she wrote in:

“Two months ago, I accepted a job and naively accepted the employer’s initial salary offer. Based on my understanding of the job, it seemed like a fair amount of money. Now that I’m fully in the job, I realize that the job is much more stressful and demanding than the employer originally let on. How long should I wait before I ask to re-adjust my salary to match the work I’ve done? Am I stuck until my one-year review?”

This is a great question from Brooke. I’m going to start by saying, my short answer: no. You do not have to wait until your one-year review to address this. I encourage you to not wait until your one-year review. A year is a long time to wait if you feel like you’re being unfairly paid for the work that you’re doing.

Many organizations offer a 90-day review option. Even if this isn’t ingrained in the process of the organization, I think it’s still acceptable to bring this up as something with your supervisor. Ask for a meeting around that time, around the three month, ninety-day time frame. That’s a good time frame after you’ve been in the job for a couple of months. You actually know what you’re doing, what the responsibilities are. You have an understanding of what the job looks like, the day-to-day.

Again, request that meeting with your supervisor and boss. Give a heads up about just wanting to check in on a ninety-day time frame about your responsibilities and ask for feedback about how you’re doing. Just to check in if you don’t have normal check ins with your supervisor in the first place.

In the meantime, compile a list of your accomplishments in this 90-day period and any additional responsibilities you have taken on, that were not listed in your job description, during this period. Really identify, compile this list, gather that data about what you’re doing, what additional things that you have taken on. Just to be able to document, because you don’t want to fly into that meeting without the preparation that you need to do to be able to make your case.

Also do some research online if you know of job titles that would be similar to the work that you are doing or do some research as well to see… With these additional responsibilities you’ve taken on, what that job title might be. Then look at what salaries are comparable in that space and what you should be being compensated for. What the market rate is for the salaries of the work that you’re doing.

Again, use these facts and data to make your points, and to reiterate your points that you’re making with your employer, to make your case that you deserve to be compensated for the work that you’re doing. I think that oftentimes folks want to have an emotional conversation saying, “I just feel that I’m not being compensated enough.” That’s very reasonable and that’s a great way to start it but you also need to back that up if you want anything to happen. If you want actual change to happen, back that data up.

Becky’s resource that she just shared would be a really great place to look, but also just Googling, finding out other salaries and things like that. Also talking to other people in the industry, if you have connections in the industry doing similar work. I think that’s a great way to gather information as well.

After you have this meeting, where you’ve made your case with your employer, allow some time for your employer to review this but make sure that you walk away from the meeting with concrete next steps. Get another meeting on the books to revisit this conversation. Don’t walk away being like, “Okay, well I’ll wait to hear from you”, because you don’t want to feel like you’re badgering them into having the conversation or anything like that. If you just leave the conversation with, “What are the next steps?” Or, “Is there an appropriate amount of time?” Or, “What’s the time frame that you need to be able to revisit this conversation?” Get that on the books right away.

Lastly, I would say to just know what you are asking for and what you’re willing to “fight” for. Know what you’re worth and know what your line in the sand is. I think there’s a lot of really great resources out there and I know Kate is going to talk about how to do some of this negotiation and asking for this type of money. I think that that will be a great resource but there is a lot of other information online as well. I know we have some information on the Mac’s List website as well about negotiation and some previous podcast episodes as well. Those would be really good resources as well for getting yourself prepared for that negotiation. Just knowing what you would be willing to accept and what you’re not willing to accept so that you know that as a baseline.

What else would you guys say?

Becky Thomas:

I think that’s really comprehensive advice. I think that’s a great plan for Brooke moving forward. I definitely agree that you shouldn’t wait and stay silent if you feel like you’re being underpaid.

Jessica Black:

It’s just going to build up and you’re going to be angry.

Becky Thomas:

Resentful and that’s never good.

I think that it’ll be important for her to put herself in the employer’s shoes. Her boss probably knows that she’s overworked and is aware of it. Your boss also wants to keep you happy. They don’t want to hire somebody to replace you when you leave because you’re being underpaid. I think it’s worth thinking through your boss’s thought process and trying to align your message with that idea, too.

Jessica Black:

Yeah, I think that’s a really good point of…we talk about with job seekers interviews and things like that, of bringing the conversation back to how you’re going to help your organization. I think that’s a great way to do it as well, “I’m a great value and I want to stay in this position but I have too much on my plate.”

Becky Thomas:

“Let’s work out a plan to make it better.” The only other thing I would say is, sometimes the employer might have budgetary limitations so think about some more creative asks. If you want to ask for an extra week of vacation or anything like that to help alleviate some of that stress. That might be something else too.

Jessica Black:

That’s a great point.

Mac Prichard:

Yeah, I think you’re both spot on with your advice and I would especially like to call out, Jessica, your suggestion about identifying next steps at the end of the conversation. There’s someone I worked with in Washington, DC when I was doing legislative work, who said, “If you’re meeting with an elected official or a staff person on Capitol Hill, you always want to identify next steps at the end of the meeting; otherwise it’s a failed meeting.” If there isn’t a clear next step that’s been identified by both parties, it’s not going to be productive. You definitely need to think about that.

Jessica Black:

It’s just going to get lost in the pile. Especially in this scenario with Brooke, it sounds like there’s already a lot of work being done in the organization. I’m sure that it’s hard to find time to meet anyway so if you just leave it to, “Oh, we’ll decide that later”, it’s just not going to happen. I think that’s good advice.

Mac Prichard:

I also like the emphasis on thinking about the employer’s needs. Brooke may hear from her manager, “Well, I can’t do that now”, but one strategy she could consider, and you both touched on this, is drawing the manager out about upcoming problems or needs. Particularly if it’s a problem that, if it’s solved, is going to add to the company’s bottom line. I think the manager is going to be both grateful for Brooke’s efforts in solving that problem and open to having a conversation about rewarding her financially for doing that as well.

Jessica Black:

Great, yeah. That’s great advice.

Mac Prichard:

Terrific, well thank you, Jessica, and thank you, Brooke, for sending in your question. If you’ve got a question for Jessica, write her. Her address is info@macslist.org. You can also call our listener line. That is area-code 716-JOB-TALK , or post your question on the Mac’s List Facebook group.

If we use your question on the show, we’ll send you a copy of Land Your Dream Job Anywhere.

We’ll be back in just a moment. When we return, I’ll talk with this week’s guest expert, Kate White, about how to ask for the money and the opportunities you want.

If you’re listening to this show right now, there are two things I know about you:

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That’s why I’m excited to announce Mac’s List’s newest free resource, which was designed for people just like you. I just published the newest edition of my Top Career Podcasts Guide. It’s a directory of the best podcasts for finding a job that matters and building the career you want.

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Get your free copy today. Go to topcareerpodcasts.com.

Now, let’s get back to our podcast!

Now let’s turn to this week’s guest expert, Kate White.

Kate White is the former editor-in-chief of five national magazines, including Cosmopolitan. She’s also The New York Times bestselling author of several career books, including the upcoming The Gutsy Girl Handbook: Your Manifesto for Success.

Kate is also the bestselling author of 12 mysteries and thrillers. She joins us today from New York City.

Kate, thanks for being on the show.

Kate White:

Well, thank you so much for having me.

Mac Prichard:

It’s a pleasure. Our topic this week, as you know, is how to ask for the money and the opportunities that you want. This is a struggle for many people in the workplace, isn’t it Kate, particularly women?

Kate White:

It really is. Yes, I certainly have focused on women in my new book but men can have the issue, too. Sometimes we’re afraid to raise our hand for something because we fear being shot down.

Mac Prichard:

That’s the fear that stops people from doing it. When you do see people ask for what they want, are there common mistakes that come up again and again that you see happen?

Kate White:

I think that the first one, just to circle back to what we were just talking about, is assuming that if they want you, they’re going to tap you, and not raising your hand for it. That’s the biggest mistake. I just saw something the other day, I heard someone talking about her policy in their company and they did not offer jobs to people who would come in for interviews unless they wrote a thank you note. In a way, that’s a microcosm; basically you’ve got to show you’re hungry for something because people don’t want people to come on board with them who are in any way less than passionate about the opportunity.

The first thing is to know you just have to ask, even if it doesn’t seem fair.

Then I think it’s really important to ask in a way that shows what you’re going to do for them. One mistake I used to see a lot of the people who were young, in particular who worked for me, they would position an ask in terms of why they needed it. It was time for them to be promoted, one woman even said her husband had taken a lower paying job so that’s why she needed a raise. When you’re the boss, even when you’re an empathetic boss, you’re not that interested in what’s going on in their life or why they think they need it. You want to know what can they do for you.

Whenever you ask, it’s so important to bring it back to, why this is good for your department, why it’s good for your boss, what you’re going to be able to do. That’s a big mistake I see both men and women making.

Mac Prichard:

It’s interesting that you should bring up the salary question. I interviewed a candidate for a position in my company some years ago and we were talking about the salary range and she said she needed to have a higher number because she was living in a rent subsidized apartment in one city and her rent was going to go up if she left that apartment. I sympathized, we all need to pay our bills, but salaries, as you know, are based on budgets and profitability and revenue sources, not necessarily on the rent needs of the employees.

Kate White:

Right.

Another thing, Mac, that I see people doing is not understanding how important timing is. One of the most important things to understand when you’re going to ask for a raise is to know that the budgets are set sometimes months in advance and when raises are given out. You want to get on your boss’s calendar weeks in advance to make your case. You also have to understand that there’s often a pool of money that your boss has been given and if she gives you a three-percent raise, that might mean she can only give a one percent raise to someone else. You really have to get in there and make your case before it’s too late, before she’s already worked it all out on paper and submitted it to her boss.

Mac Prichard:

I want to dig into that, Kate, because I know there are people who are listening who are eager to learn how best negotiate, either a higher starting raise or a raise when you’re doing an annual review or promotion, but before we get there, let’s just talk about the elephant in the living room here. Why isn’t good work alone enough? Why won’t your manager or your boss notice that and offer you the promotions and the raises you think good work qualifies you for.

Kate White:

Because good work often doesn’t necessarily increase profitability, drive business, create buzz, the kinds of things that can matter in a really competitive field. I really believe you have to do more than you’ve been told to do. You’ve got to go big or go home. You really have to come up with bold, gutsy, innovative, sometimes disruptive, ideas that not only strengthen your strengths, in terms of your career, but are going to drive profitability and set you apart from the pack. I saw an interesting study lately that showed that the way we often get promoted is by dazzling a boss with glamour projects, like running a new team or representing your company at an industry event. Perhaps handling a project for a major client.

These are often given more significantly to white men, so regardless, you just have to raise your hand often for those kinds of projects rather than wait to be handed them. Unfortunately doing a good job, working your butt off, and having a fair amount of grit, isn’t enough.

The other thing is, bosses sometimes don’t want to rock the boat in terms of budget. They’re going to do it if they’re afraid they might lose you or make you unhappy but if you’re not saying anything, if you’re not making noise, they’re going to tell themselves, “Well, she seems happy.” Or, “He seems happy so I don’t have to move the needle here.”

Mac Prichard:

Well, let’s talk about salaries. I know an important point in this process is when you get a job offer, and the starting salary that you accept is going to set the stage for the compensation that you get later in that position.

Kate White:

Oh my gosh, that’s so true.

Mac Prichard:

Yeah, so how should people approach that, Kate? Should they take the first offer they get from a hiring manager?

Kate White:

I heard somebody really smart recently say, “Start on a good foot, take the first offer”. I don’t really believe that because I’ve seen so many women, in particular, fail to negotiate their starting salary. Men fail to negotiate their starting salary, too. Women do it in greater numbers but still we both do it. You’re often leaving money on the table if you do that because, as a boss, I know you’re trying to get the person as reasonably as possible because then you can save that money for something else. You may discover that if they’re happy with X amount, “Wow. Good, I’ve got some more money in my pocket than I planned to have after this.”

They are often lowballing you and it’s important to understand that. Accept that they expect you, in so many situations, to negotiate, to do it. You start by doing your homework, preparation is the key thing. Do your research, discover the zone of possible agreement. What is their reservation point likely to be? What is your reservation point?

Let’s say you figure out that your reservation point is $60,000, just for argument’s sake. You don’t want to go below that because of your standard of living. You do some research and discover that you think their reservation point might be $70,000. They may be open to paying between $65,000 and $70,000. You’d be happy with $68,000, but you’d love $70,000. Well, my best advice would be to ask for $72,000. Go higher because your research might not be perfect and the worst that can happen is them saying, “Gee, that’s more than we expect to pay.”

I think it’s also important today to understand that a lot of negotiation experts recommend that you name the first number. It used to be that you let them name the number but when you name the number, you seem more flexible, if they’re coming back to you. Name a number, say, “I’m looking for this amount based on my experience and my research about the field and my skill level.” Then be quiet and hear what they have to say.

Of course you don’t want to look like you’re digging in your heels in some way because you want to be able to negotiate. If they come back and say, “Whoa, $72,000 is more than we were planning to pay”, then you can be flexible sounding and say, “Well, I love the sound of the job, I’d love to work for you, I love the sound of this company. What were you thinking of?” That way, you’re letting them come back to you.

Mac Prichard:

I love this advice. The two things that stand out for me are, one, that you’re setting the range when you name that figure, and the second is that when the employer is saying, “Well that’s not what we were planning on spending”, you’re not coming up with another number as an alternative you’re letting them propose something.

Kate White:

Right, that’s right. Not everyone agrees with this approach; there are, as I mentioned earlier, people who would say, “You don’t want to start off on the wrong foot.” But as a boss, I used to find that the people who negotiated, they annoyed me in the moment, Mac, but once they started and did a brilliant job, I didn’t care. I respected them for negotiating. I had fabulous luck as a negotiator even though it scared my pants off. I did it and it always paid off because as I said, they so often do have more. If they don’t, they’ll tell you and then you take it from there.

Mac Prichard:

I want to turn to opportunities, particularly promotions, Kate, but before we do that, any other negotiation tips you’d like to share with our listeners?

Kate White:

I think, take a deep breath, once it’s their turn to come back to you. Don’t fill the vacuum and say, “But of course I’d be willing to take less.” You have to be brave enough to hear them out and if they say anything like, “Well, I’m going to have to check with my boss and get back to you”, you may have a nervous night but hang in there. I would say in that case, leave them with a sense that you really want the job. You say something like, “Well thank you so much. I really appreciate you checking about getting a higher amount. As I said, I just want to repeat, I love the sound of this job. I think I could bring a lot to this company.”

Lastly, the more you keep the discussion about their needs, not your needs…what you can do for them, the ideas that you have that you would love to execute. It’s got to be all about them and remind them of that.

Mac Prichard:

Terrific. Well let’s talk about promotions. What is your best advice there, Kate, about how to approach this subject with a manager or your employers in general?

Kate White:

Well, first I say, don’t wait to be tapped. That’s a common mistake people make and I think women tend to make this. Sometimes we think, “Oh, they know I’m good, they know I want it.” They don’t always know; they may have to be reminded. They don’t know how hungry you are. In fact, I know this really hurt somebody who worked for me once, but I never gave a promotion to somebody who didn’t come and ask. This was when a job opened up.

Which brings me to something I just want to point out; a lot of people, when they’re young, don’t understand that companies can’t often give someone a promotion just because they’ve been at the job for a while. They have to wait until a position opens up. When a position opens up, you go ask for it even if you think you’re the most obvious choice in the world. Again, don’t make it just about you, like, “I’ve been here four years and I’ve worked hard. I think it’s my time.” They don’t care; they want to know what are you going to do in this job to make us happier than the last person, or as happy as the last person. Really show off.

I always recommend following your presentation in person with something written. Reinforce what you shared in the meeting. Give them a written proposal of how you’re going to run with this and really make them so happy they considered you.

Mac Prichard:

I love that advice, too, because whether you’re doing sales, and I do a fair amount of that as an owner of a public relations agency, or it reminds me of my time working in politics for elected officials on campaigns…You’ve got to ask for the business or you’ve got to ask for the vote.

Kate White:

It’s so true. I got a job once and I was pregnant. Actually, I had just had my baby and my boss was giving me a really hard time about leaving at a reasonable hour. A job came up to run a parenting magazine and I thought, “Wow, they’re not going to mind a good mommy in that job. They’re going to want a good mommy.” So I applied for the job and I got through the headhunter round.

I was with a group of the top people. I wanted that job so badly and at the end, they said, “Any other questions?” I said, “No, but there is something I’d like to say.” I asked for the business. I hadn’t even heard that term yet, but after I started the job, having gotten it, the publisher said to me, “We loved the fact that you asked for the business.”

Really, people, they want you to ask for the business because it shows that you’re hungry and passionate.

Mac Prichard:

Absolutely. Employers tell me they’re always impressed at the end of an interview when a job candidate asks for the job. Simply, when I’m doing sales calls for my public relations company, I always close the meeting by saying, “It may sound like a formality, but I’m going to ask you for the order. I would love to have your business.”

Kate White:

That’s great.

Mac Prichard:

Yeah.

Kate White:

Yeah, I love that.

Mac Prichard:

We’ve talked about what to do when promotions or opportunities open up, but Kate, how can people create opportunities for themselves? What can they do instead of waiting to be picked to actually create something?

Kate White:

That’s a good point because sometimes you may be looking for that glamour project like I mentioned earlier. The kind of projects that help get you promoted, like running a new team or representing your company at an industry event. You may not see that on the horizon and then it’s really great to step back and ask yourself, “What’s missing? What problem could I solve here?”

As an executive I know says, “If you’re not seeing a problem in your department, you’re not looking hard enough. There’s something.” I mentioned this once in a speech I gave and I got this great email from a woman who said, “I was a young assistant in a PR firm. I heard you say that so I started asking, ‘What’s missing here?’”

She said, “We did not have a crisis manual.” As you know from being in that business, you need a manual that explains what you do when things really hit the fan. She said that she just wrote a crisis manual for them and they loved it. Then she did a few other things that weren’t in her job description. They weren’t on the horizon but they were her asking, “What’s missing?” She said that the next thing she knew, she was being being promoted to associate in this PR company.

Ask yourself what’s missing. What can you solve?

Mac Prichard:

Great advice. Well Kate, tell us what’s next for you?

Kate White:

I will be on the road a little bit. The Gutsy Girl Handbook came out this week and I’ve started to do a fair number of speeches related to the book. I love so much going to companies and conferences, particularly geared towards women, I’d have to say, though men can find this advice useful as well. Because even guys sometimes have the Good Girl Gland, where you just feel like you’re hesitating because you’re a little bit nervous about how it will play out if you do ask or if you do take that step. I’ll be speaking a lot on the road at different conferences and companies and I enjoy that. That’s how I’ll be spending the rest of my spring and early summer.

Mac Prichard:

Well, terrific. I know people can learn more about you and your book, and your upcoming speaking engagements by visiting your website. That’s katewhitespeaks.com, as well as your Twitter account. Great.

Kate, thanks for being on the show today.

Kate White:

Thanks so much, Mac.

Mac Prichard:

We’re back in the studio with Becky and Jessica. What are some of your thoughts about my conversation with Kate?

Becky Thomas:

I thought it was great. I thought she had some really insightful points from a manager’s perspective, from the boss’s perspective. Because when an employee is doing hard work and trying to get noticed for the work that they’re doing, your boss might not notice that. It’s up to you to raise your hand, like she said, and ask for the projects and ask for the opportunities. Really build a case for the raise that you want, things like that.

I think it was really clear inspiration for, “Here’s what you can do to really show your boss what you can do and why you deserve more money.” Yeah, I thought it was really helpful.

Jessica Black:

I really liked that, too. A lot of that resonated with me as well. Her comment about, “Don’t wait for the opportunities to come to you. You need to identify what your goals are and make those known to your supervisor or boss.”

Then remind them, ask for them when they’re presented or identify some ways that there is room for growth in the organization and make that known to your boss. You know, “Here’s a way that we can improve our organization or our system”, or whatever and say, “I’ll lead that. I’ll put that together, whatever it is.”

Becky Thomas:

Yeah, that advice of look for what’s missing and go do it.

Jessica Black:

Right, yeah. I really liked her reiteration…I’m following up on what you were saying about not waiting to be asked or not waiting to be called on. Our whole lives we’ve been conditioned to just put our hand up and wait to be called upon and in the business world and in your organizations, that flips it on its head. There is still some room for that; you don’t want to just overstep or take over and pretend that you’re the one in charge when you’re not because it is still a team collaboration. You’re part of a group leading the charge but I think that knowing what you want and asking for it is really important.

That’s okay, and it’s encouraged, and it’s not something that you have to be meek about because the people who are going to ask for it are the people who are going to get those opportunities. You don’t always have to be loud about it but you can have quiet conversations with your boss if you prefer to not make that public. I think that that is…personality styles differ where not everyone is going to want to make their goals and desires public and speak up in front of people. That’s okay too as long as you are having those conversations.

Anyway, I made a lot of notes.

Mac Prichard:

Yeah, I saw you taking notes.

Jessica Black:

Yeah, she made a lot of really excellent points and I liked her point about, it’s not just women that can use this. I think that a lot of times that is the case, where women need a little bit more, but I liked her point that men struggled with it as well. I think it’s great advice for everyone.

Mac Prichard:

Agreed, and I, too, second her point, that you were sharing, Jessica about the importance of not waiting to be picked. If you want something, tell it to the people who can make it happen that it is indeed what you want. They may say no, they’re not telepathic so you need to communicate it.

As you both know, I’ve got an analytical bend so I loved that very concrete process she laid out for negotiation and the different steps.

Becky Thomas:

Mhmmm, that was smart.

Mac Prichard:

Yeah. You could take whole courses and read books about how to do everything she just said in a few paragraphs. But the point here is that there is a process, you can learn how to do it, and it takes some effort but once you learn how to do it, your salary is going to go up. You’re going to have much more success getting promotions and raises.

Jessica Black:

Yeah.

Mac Prichard:

Good. Well thank you both, and thank you, Kate, for joining us, and you, our listeners, for downloading today’s episode of Find Your Dream Job.

If you enjoyed Find Your Dream Job, and you’re looking for more great career podcasts, be sure to check out our 2018 Top Career Podcast Guide. You’ll discover 78 shows that can help you get hired.

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Join us next Wednesday. Our special guest will be Joey Price. He’ll explain how to make the most of your first 90 days on the job.

Until next time, thanks for letting us help you find your dream job!