What To Do When You Don’t Know What’s Next, with Andrea Yacub Macek

You feel like it’s time to make a career change, but you aren’t sure which direction you should take. How do you know what to do next? Find Your Dream Job guest Andrea Yacub Macek says you begin by getting clear on what you want from your career, or at least the next level. Then, focus on only one or two areas or goals, and make a decision on what to do as your next step. Finally, Andrea suggests identifying the pieces and parts of your dream job and connecting them with specific positions or companies you’d like to apply to. 

About Our Guest:

Andrea Yacub Macek is the founder and CEO of AYM Consulting. 

Resources in This Episode:

• Are you a high-performing female who’s ready for change? Let Andrea empower you to achieve your highest career success yet by visiting www.aymconsulting.io.
• Andrea would love to connect with you and offer support in your career change. Connect with her on LinkedIn.

Transcript

Find Your Dream Job, Episode 451:

What To Do When You Don’t Know What’s Next, with Andrea Yacub Macek

Airdate: May 22, 2024

Mac Prichard:

This is Find Your Dream Job, the podcast that helps you get hired, have the career you want, and make a difference in life.

I’m your host, Mac Prichard. I’m also the founder of Mac’s List. It’s a job board in the Pacific Northwest that helps you find a fulfilling career.

Every Wednesday, I talk to a different expert about the tools you need to get the work you want.

It’s time to change your job.

Maybe even your career.

But you can’t decide where you want to go.

Andrea Yacub Macek is here to talk about what to do when you don’t know what’s next.

She’s the founder and CEO of AYM Consulting.

Andrea’s company helps professional women show up as themselves and move forward and upward in their careers.

She joins us from Salt Lake City, Utah.

Well, let’s jump right into it, Andrea.

Why do people struggle with not knowing what to do next in a career or making a job change? What’s going on there?

Andrea Yacub Macek:

Sure, so there’s a couple of things at play, and I will preface that, as a career coach for women, I am speaking mainly from a female perspective, as a female myself, but typically, what happens when someone finds themself at this intersection, it’s because there is a personal and professional situation happening, and we can’t isolate those two. If you’re at a career intersection, there’s something happening in your personal life.

That’s one thing, and secondly, we’re socialized to view careers in a linear trajectory, and that’s not accurate. Careers are meant to be up and down, zig-zag, go in circles, and go all over the place, but we are very socialized at a young age to take a linear path because our education is set up in a linear path.

So, when professionals find themselves at an intersection of, “What do I do next,” they’re looking for that next step in their roadmap, and they haven’t been taught or coached on how to make that next step.

That’s typically the two main things that are happening.

Mac Prichard:

Let’s talk about that second point that you just made there, Andrea, about that linear path we’re taught that careers should take. How, in your experience as a career coach, how often are we likely to experience this situation where we’re not going to know what we’re sure about doing next in our time in the workplace?

Andrea Yacub Macek:

Typically, it’s pretty immediate because, again, the school system is not set up to help us think critically when there’s an opening in the step. Meaning, typically, you come out of high school; some people will go on to a trade school or to college, and again, it’s a linear setup, so when you’re dropped, if you will, into the real world and a career setting, when, there’s a lot of open-ended questions, you’re with a team, you’re with a boss, you’re in a new culture of the company.

Usually, right away, people will feel pretty unhinged and uncertain of what to do next, and usually, that’s just covered up by taking action. Doing your job, learning your job, trying to figure out what your boss wants, and we just continue to go down that path, and then it will come to a head at an intersection, again, when there’s personal and professional things, maybe colliding, and then somebody finally looks up and goes, “Oh, well, what do I actually do next now? What happens?” And they’re pulled out of that rhythm.

Mac Prichard:

Careers can go on for three or four decades, so is this something that only happens after graduation from high school or college or can you expect it naturally to occur again during your time in the workplace?

Andrea Yacub Macek:

You should expect it to occur naturally at various points of your career. Again, it typically happens right after college; then, what I see with my clients is it usually happens again at the five, ten, fifteen, twenty, twenty-five mark.

Usually, every three to five years, there will be some sort of episode or event or situation, again, in someone’s personal or professional life that’s creating this question. I want everyone to know that that’s not wrong, that’s not bad, it’s perfectly normal, and to feel that way and to experience those questions.

Mac Prichard:

Often, when people are unsure about what to do next, they’ll do a job search. They’ll start applying for positions. What can happen in a search when you’re not clear about what you want to do next?

Andrea Yacub Macek:

That typically looks like what we see called the “spray and pray” method in a job search, meaning you’re applying for everything. You’re not really having a strategic direction, and that will create burnout very quickly. That happens because you don’t know what you want or you don’t know where to aim, so you want to really create a focus without restricting yourself too much, and I’m sure we’ll talk more about that.

Mac Prichard:

We’re absolutely going to jump into that.

One last question before we do: what stops people from getting that clarity about what they want to do next? What do you see in your practice?

Andrea Yacub Macek:

The number one barrier is fear. Fear of failure, fear of messing up, fear of disappointing themselves or somebody else, and fear that it won’t work out. Really, fear is the big F word, is what I call it, in our careers that we don’t want to talk about but that really needs to be addressed.

Mac Prichard:

You’ve got three points that you encourage people to follow to get clarity about what to do next, but what about overcoming fear before we get into those points? What have you seen be most effective, Andrea, for people who are wrestling with that?

Andrea Yacub Macek:

There’s a few methods, but one of the most helpful that I really support my clients through is connection with others. Networking. We’re human; we want to connect with others who are similar to us and have been through what we’ve been through and are on the other side of that fear and are loving that career path that we are thinking about or have been curious about.

Really, networking is one of the most powerful ways to overcome that fear to, again, see living examples of the other side of that.

Mac Prichard:

Let’s talk about a process that you encourage your clients to follow. There are three steps that you recommend people take when they’re not sure what to do next. The first is to identify a clear direction. The second is to simplify your goal. The third is to optimize your plan.

Let’s talk about that first point, Andrea. Why is it important to have a clear direction when you don’t know what to do next?

Andrea Yacub Macek:

Right, so this is the foundation of an effective job search because when you have a clear target in mind, so let’s make it concrete. So, let’s say that you want to work in project management and you want to work in healthcare. When you have that clarity, you are then able to create a plan and take action with less second-guessing, with less fear because you have an idea of where you’re going.

It doesn’t mean that you have a step-by-step exact plan of what’s going to happen next, but you have a roadmap, and that’s really important for people. Our brains, as humans, don’t like the unknown; we like to know what’s happening, so if you can give yourself a direction of where to go, it’s really going to help that.

Secondly, this is invaluable and critical for communication in a job search. Your job search is a series of conversations right from the beginning. When you apply online, when you’re on LinkedIn, when you’re in the interview, it’s all a touchpoint for a conversation, and when you have clarity, you’re able to confidently and expertly communicate your value to the employer, and that’s really important so that you can stand out.

Mac Prichard:

The benefits are clear, but how do you do this, Andrea? What steps do you encourage listeners to take to get that clear direction about what to do next?

Andrea Yacub Macek:

Yeah, so two main ways. One, I’m going to keep coming back to networking. It’s one of the most beneficial strategies that any professional or job seeker can really learn and utilize. Again, connecting with other people to understand what path, what steps have they taken.

A different way is to really look at yourself. Your present self, your past self, and really look at what have you done that has worked for you. Have you taken coursework? How have you gotten into the positions that you had? What strategies have you applied? Really looking and evaluating what steps you’ve already taken.

Those are two main ways that people can start to gain clarity.

Mac Prichard:

Let’s talk about networking. That can be a struggle for many people. They’re often uncertain about how to do it. They may feel uncomfortable talking to people that they don’t know.

What have you seen work for people who need to network in order to get that clear direction about what they want to do next?

Andrea Yacub Macek:

I coach and teach on this as well, so we’ll talk about resources at the end, but a quick method, again, is to start with your goal. It’s valid and normal to have multiple priorities or goals at the same time when you’re at this intersection of what do I do next or when you’re networking. Again, the key foundation, or the first step here, is to get clear.

For example, maybe you want to change industries or get a different title, or maybe make more money. Really think about what is the first priority for you? What is that main goal that you want to focus on?

From there, start to talk to people that you know. That would be a first step for networking, especially if you’re not comfortable with it or don’t have much practice with it. That is overlooked too often. People tend to want to go network with the person in their dream job or the person in their dream company. That’s great, and I want you to get there, but I want people to focus on connecting with people that they know first.

Have those conversations. Connect with people that you know that’s going to take the pressure off of you and allow you to get more clarity and information in a low-pressure way.

Mac Prichard:

Terrific.

We’re going to take a break, Andrea.

When we come back, Andrea Yacub Macek will continue to share her advice on what to do when you don’t know what’s next.

Stay with us.

We’re back in the Mac’s List studio. I’m talking with Andrea Yacub Macek.

She’s the founder and CEO of AYM Consulting.

Andrea’s company helps professional women show up as themselves and move forward and upward in their careers.

She joins us from Salt Lake City, Utah.

Andrea, before the break, we were talking about what to do when you don’t know what’s next.

There are three points you encourage people to follow to help figure out the answer to this question. The first is setting a clear direction, and in doing that, you encouraged listeners to reflect back on what has worked in past job searches and getting clarity about what they want to do next.

Tell us more about that. Why is it important to do that reflection, and how to do it, Andrea?

Andrea Yacub Macek:

Sure, again, that comes back to the step, which is clarity and really understanding who you are, what you want, and what makes you valuable as a job seeker. Again, typically, as professionals, we go through the motions, and we get the job, we develop the career, we keep going, we get promoted, and we rely, typically, pretty heavily on outside feedback and insight as to what we’re good at and what we want to do, but when we’re at this intersection of, “What do I do next?” It’s really important to turn inward and really take some time to understand what is it that you actually want.

What are you good at? What are the areas that you would identify for yourself and really get that validation for yourself? And this is mostly important for women. A lot of women, we struggle with that, so that’s why I really emphasize that point.

Mac Prichard:

Well, let’s talk about your second point for figuring out what to do when you’re not sure what to do next, and that step is simplifying your goal. What do you have in mind here, Andrea?

Andrea Yacub Macek:

Sure, when you come out of that clarity step and, again, this is not a linear process, but I’m making it linear for ease of use, once you do some of that reflection and the clarity items, you’re going to come out with a lot of information. So, here’s where I want people to practice simplification because we tend to make job searches over-complicated, and complicated in a job search doesn’t work. That’s what makes it longer and that’s what makes it stressful.

I want people to really practice the art of simplification and focus in on those key one to two areas or insights or goals that you want to move forward with. What is the item that you’re really ready to take action on?

Do you want to reconnect with somebody? Do you want to apply for a certain company? Do you want to apply for a certain title? Do you need more information about a particular area to create an action plan?

Really practice the art of simplification and also, practice the art of decision-making. Don’t focus on making the right decision. Focus on making the next decision, so you can move forward.

Mac Prichard:

Simplify, act, but how do you do that? Because it’s easy to come up with a long list of to-do items. What have you seen work, Andrea, for helping people figure out what are the three to five things that they actually must do?

Andrea Yacub Macek:

Their values. We all really value and prioritize certain things. So, it might be more rest, more time for ourselves, more time with loved ones, maybe more money, more flexibility. So, again, really get clear with yourself about what those top priorities that you are ready to match up in your job search.

That’s going to give you a great starting point to take action and simplify from that point of value.

Mac Prichard:

How do you make that connection between values and that lengthy to-do list? How do you see people do that effectively?

Andrea Yacub Macek:

Simple but powerful, is I ask my clients to, again, take time. Take about 15-20 minutes, set a timer, get in a quiet space, go to a coffee shop, go in the kitchen, make yourself a cup of tea, and just sit for even 20 minutes and let yourself think about all the areas that you want more time for or would have more time for.

What are the things that you keep putting off? What do you want to do? We all have that, well, as women, I’ll clarify, we typically have that running to-do list of the things that we want to do or wish we could do. That’s probably your value mechanism coming forward, and that’s something to pay attention to, prioritize, and take action from.

Mac Prichard:

That helps you get clarity about your overall goal. How can you navigate that lengthy list and figure out the most important things that you need to do to accomplish that goal and act on those values and make them a part of your life?

Andrea Yacub Macek:

Yeah, so, by taking it one step at a time. Again, one of the biggest mistakes I see is people trying to do too much, too fast in the job search, and they want to tackle everything all at once. They want to get on every job board, they want to update every part of their resume, they want to send off too many resumes. Don’t do that.

Instead, pick, again, simplification and clarity come back in here, pick one to two things. You’re better off spending your time on one to two items and then going from there and incorporate it into a habit that you already have.

For example, if you work from home and can take an extra fifteen minutes to write out an idea for your resume or for a cover letter while your coffee is brewing, do that. Or if you take the train into work and if you’re still working in the office, take that time during your commute.

Build it into a habit that you already have so that it doesn’t feel like another item on your to-do list.

Mac Prichard:

The third of your three suggestions for figuring out what to do when you’re not sure what to do next is to optimize your plan.

Tell us more about this, Andrea. What does an optimized plan look like?

Andrea Yacub Macek:

I just touched on that a little bit with the suggestion of how to habit stack, if you will, and build it into another habit, but again, think about you personally, as a job seeker, as a professional, how do you work best? Meaning do you work best when you have a list that you can check off throughout the week, and by Sunday, you’re done with that list? Or do you work better by seeing it visually on a calendar? A paper calendar or electronic calendar?

Again, think about how you already do things and what are the things you’re getting done routinely, and then put your job search items, put your what to do next items on that list. Again, the process here is not to make it harder for yourself, you want to make it more simplified and doable for you.

That would be the best way to optimize your search.

Mac Prichard:

How do you measure both progress and success when you’re implementing this optimized plan? What kind of victories should you be celebrating?

Andrea Yacub Macek:

Clarity is a big one. The more that you start to feel grounded and feel like you have a sense of direction, feel like you have a sense of, “Okay, I can do this.” That’s one of the biggest things because when you’re asking the question, “What do I do next?” You’re feeling mostly the opposite of those feelings.

You’re feeling confused, you’re feeling lost, you’re feeling like you’re floating, so when you start to feel the opposite of those and, again, start to feel more grounded and feel connected, that’s a big win.

Then, also, action, so more concrete action steps. Again, if you’re networking with that individual, you’ve reached out to them, you’ve sent that email, you’ve scheduled the coffee date, you’ve blocked the fifteen minutes to update one part of your resume, measurable success is just as important as emotional success in this process.

Mac Prichard:

So you’ve followed the three steps, you’ve identified a clear direction; second, you’ve simplified your goal; and third, you’ve optimized your plan.

How do you know when you have the answer that you, indeed, really have figured out what you want to do next?

Andrea Yacub Macek:

People aren’t going to like this answer, but it’s knowing that you’re willing to be open to the clarity and the direction that you’ve found.

Meaning, there is…for everyone, there’s not this singular passion connected road ahead, and I think that that’s a big disadvantage that we’re socialized. Meaning that we are trained and socialized to believe that there is a dream job, there’s a dream partner, there’s this dream thing, and that’s okay.

There’s this idea of the dream, but I want people to really start to identify the pieces of the dream. Again, what are the tasks that you’re doing? Who are the people that you’re working with? What’s the environment that you’re in?

Start to connect the elements of that so that you can reach that culmination at some point, but don’t try to go for it all at once. That’s going to burn you out and stress you out. Really look for the stepping stones in that dream.

Mac Prichard:

Well, it’s been a terrific conversation, Andrea.

Now, tell us, what’s next for you?

Andrea Yacub Macek:

I am continuing to support women and their career changes, and so I invite everyone to connect with me on LinkedIn if they want to learn more about this conversation. They are invited to support me and connect with me there. I’d welcome a conversation with them.

Mac Prichard:

Terrific, and I know listeners can learn more about you, your work, and your services by visiting your website, www.aymconsulting.io, and when they do reach out to you on LinkedIn, I hope that they’ll mention that they heard you on Find Your Dream Job.

Now, Andrea, given all of the great advice that you’ve shared today, what’s the one thing you want a listener to remember about what to do when you don’t know what’s next?

Andrea Yacub Macek:

I want people to really take away and know that it’s normal and valid to feel that way. There’s nothing wrong with you. That means that you’re at the intersection of something great and ready to find what’s next for you.

Mac Prichard:

Next week, our guest will be Michael Buck.

He’s a recruiter and human resources manager with deep roots in the nonprofit sector.

You have a job interview coming up.

And you’re not sure how to prepare.

How can you make sure you got this?

Join us next Wednesday when Michael Buck and I talk about what to do before a job interview.

Until next time, thanks for letting us help you find your dream job.

This show is produced by Mac’s List.

Susan Thornton-Hough schedules our guests and writes our newsletter. Lisa Kislingbury Anderson manages our social media.

Our sound engineer is Matt Fiorillo. Ryan Morrison at Podfly Productions edits the show. Dawn Mole creates our transcripts. And our music is by Freddy Trujillo.

This is Mac Prichard. See you next week.