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How Women Can Show Confidence in a Job Search, with Jamila Brown

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If you don’t believe in yourself, nobody will believe in you. Confidence is the key factor in getting the job you’ve dreamed of, according to Find Your Dream Job guest Jamila Brown. Hiring managers are looking for candidates who know their value and what they have to offer. Jamila also says your job search is business, so if you don’t get hired, it’s not a personal rejection. And finally, have options. It’s nice to get an interview, but multiple interviews are more likely to lead to a job offer. Don’t stop at plan A; have plans B, C, D, and E in the background to pull from. 

About Our Guest:

Jamila Brown is a career strategist and a co-founder of the 5 Minute Career Hack.

Resources in This Episode:

Transcript

Find Your Dream Job, Episode 432:

How Women Can Show Confidence in a Job Search, with Jamila Brown

Airdate: January 10, 2024

Mac Prichard:

This is Find Your Dream Job, the podcast that helps you get hired, have the career you want, and make a difference in life.

I’m your host, Mac Prichard. I’m also the founder of Mac’s List. It’s a job board in the Pacific Northwest that helps you find a fulfilling career.

Every Wednesday, I talk to a different expert about the tools you need to get the work you want.

Find Your Dream Job is brought to you by TopResume. TopResume has helped more than 400,000 professionals land more interviews and get hired faster.

Get a free review of your resume today.

Go to macslist.org/topresume.

Gender differences in job search are real, especially in applications.

Many women, for example, are unlikely to apply for a job unless they are confident they meet 100% of the qualifications.

Jamila Brown is here to talk about how women can show confidence in a job search.

She’s a career strategist and a co-founder of the 5 Minute Career Hack.

It’s a podcast and a coaching company that helps you change your career and get the salary you want.

Jamila joins us from the city of New Orleans.

Well, let’s jump right into it, Jamila. Why does confidence matter in your job search? Why is it important?

Jamila Brown:

Confidence is critical. You can’t sell yourself to a company if you don’t believe deeply in who you are and what you’re capable of. That can come out in the interview process, as well as once you’re on the job, and people tend to lose confidence in people that don’t exude confidence in who they are. If you really can’t sell yourself, no one’s gonna buy into you as a leader or in that job.

Mac Prichard:

What do employers think about candidates who don’t show confidence?

Jamila Brown:

Well, I’ll take it back to my time when I was in a hiring manager’s position, which is most of my career, and you can oftentimes sniff out a person that is not as confident as they need to be, and it raises red flags for the person that is hiring you, whether that’s an HR manager or recruiter that’s involved in that process or the actual person you’ll be working directly with. It raises red flags, and it will cause a recruiter or a hiring manager to actually dig deeper to find out. Why is this person kind of shrinking in this interview about the things that they’ve done in their career that are showing on their resume, when they don’t have the confidence?

So, that’s the first red flag that, oftentimes, people will look for when they’re interviewing. And I advise my clients and our community on a regular basis – you’ve got to walk in there with confidence and exude that confidence. Because if not, you’re gonna cause that person to dig deeper into your work history and experience to find out what’s the disconnect.

Mac Prichard:

And why does that disconnect matter? I want to dig into that because there may be listeners who think, well, I’ve got the skills. I’ve got the credentials. Shouldn’t that be enough, Jamila?

Jamila Brown:

Yes, and if we were bots or computers solely, then it probably wouldn’t matter. However, human nature dictates that we gravitate towards people, especially in the workplace, that exude confidence. But also in relationships. You want to know that you’ll be able to count on that person. So, when you see wavering in their confidence, you’re less likely, just as a human being, to want that person on your team.

Will they show up? Will they execute? Will they get the job done? Those are all questions that’ll ring in the back of that person’s mind when they’re interviewing you.

And that’s just a human characteristic, in my opinion, behavior psychology that suggests that, and it’s important. And if you raise those red flags, as I was mentioning earlier, they’re gonna want to dig in, and they’re probably gonna have that bias in the back of their mind throughout the rest of the hiring process. So the moment someone else comes in the door in that same applicant pool and expresses themselves in a confident way, they’re gonna strike you off the list.

Mac Prichard:

You’re a career strategist, and you mentioned you’ve done a lot of hiring before you started your current company. When you’re looking for confidence as a hiring manager, what are the signs that somebody is confident?

Jamila Brown:

Well, first and foremost, oftentimes, we’re coaching people on their resume and building their professional brand around listing tangible, concrete, statistical accomplishments and goals and things that they’ve actually done in their career. And if I see that on a resume, if I’m the hiring manager, I see that on a resume, but they don’t really speak to, in the first person, what they’ve actually done, and they tend to speak more team, and we, and less results that I accomplished. That’s a direct sign that something’s off here. That something might not quite be what I need for this person in this role.

Because they’re unwilling, even though they put this on their resume or it’s on their LinkedIn profile, they’re unwilling to speak about their accomplishments. They’re unwilling to brag, and that could be some conditioning that might be causing that. But that’s one of the things that recruiters and HR managers are quickly looking for.

Mac Prichard:

How does gender affect confidence? Especially during a job search, Jamila.

Jamila Brown:

It’s unfortunate, especially me being a woman, that women are less likely to apply for jobs when they don’t meet a hundred percent of the qualifications, whereas men will actually apply when they meet fifty to sixty percent of the qualifications. Meaning that we won’t even enter the job candidate pool if we don’t check every box, and that could be due to confidence in many cases, and many studies have shown that it’s due to confidence. But it can also be that they don’t even feel like the actual job interview process will warrant them even getting an interview, so they don’t want to waste their time.

And that’s a big misconception about the entire interview process as a whole is that, that actually is not true. Oftentimes, they’ll hire someone with twenty-five percent of the qualifications if they show a trajectory that is for a future job. They may want to hire that person, and we can teach you the rest.

So, having that preconceived notion that I shouldn’t even waste my time if I’m not checking all of the boxes is unfortunate, and more women possess that bias on the front side and really take themselves out of the equation before the race even starts.

Mac Prichard:

And why does that happen, Jamila? You’re a coach. Again, you’ve been a hiring manager, and you’re familiar with the research here. Why does this gender difference exist?

Jamila Brown:

I believe it starts when we are very, very, very young. You always use the example of if you’ve got a boy and a girl growing up, they’re four or five years old, a girl will learn to walk down steps one step at a time, and a young boy will just jump three or four steps at a time not really caring, not having even taken one step down a stair.

And it comes from some of the ways of which we were raised, and we’re taught to be careful. Don’t do that, or don’t try this. You’re gonna hurt yourself. And boys, young boys, are not treated in the exact same way at an early age, and so there’s this built-in fear, be cautious. Be careful. That exists in most women, and it’s very, very difficult to overcome.

I even see it in – I coach basketball as well at a high school level. I even see it at that level. It’s so hard to get them to overcome that fear of making a mistake or trying something that they’ve never tried before or going for something that maybe they’ve practiced a little bit but haven’t done a hundred percent in a game. It’s so difficult to get them to overcome that fear because of the conditioning.

Mac Prichard:

Let’s get tactical for a moment. What would you say to a woman who’s looking at a job posting and she’s trying to decide whether or not to apply?

She doesn’t have a hundred percent of the qualifications. What’s your recommended percentage, Jamila, when you work with your clients or when you were looking at applications as a hiring manager?

Jamila Brown:

Honestly, if you feel like you’ve got experience that correlates in some way, shape, or form to the position that you’re looking at currently, you should apply. Worst-case scenario, you get an interview, or you’re able to talk to that recruiter, even if you don’t get the job, about other things that you needed in that moment to get the job. Without that information, you’ll never be ready for that job, and I think that’s so important. Sometimes, people see it as a zero-sum game; if I don’t get the job or I don’t get the interview, man, I’m just not capable of doing that job.

Versus using it as an opportunity to gain more insight, gain more experience, and be able to pick that recruiter’s brain, and most recruiters really appreciate that. They really appreciate that engagement after the fact, and they’re more likely to keep you on the short list of people to reach out to for future opportunities. So that would be the first thing I would say.

Mac Prichard:

Okay, for those out there who love numbers, just to simplify it, is there a cut-off? I mean, do you need twenty-five percent? Fifty percent? Sixty percent? What’s been your experience?

Jamila Brown:

If I have to give you an exact percentage, which I hate to do, but I’ll give you an exact percentage because, I know, I’m a numerical person, as well. I would say around thirty to thirty-five percent. If you meet some of those qualifications, especially if they’re ones that the recruiter has been told by the hiring manager, I’m definitely looking for someone that has experience or education in this specific thing. You’re not sure about that information when you apply, but if you happen to meet it, you could actually get an interview.

Mac Prichard:

Terrific. Let’s take a break, and when we come back in the second segment, Jamila, I want to talk about the steps that you take your clients through that help women show confidence in a job search, and I know you’ve got some very specific ideas, and I want to walk through them one-by-one. So stay with us. When we return, Jamila Brown will continue to share her advice on how women can show confidence in a job search.

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Now, let’s get back to the show.

We’re back in the Mac’s List studio. I’m talking with Jamila Brown.

She’s a career strategist and a co-founder of the 5 Minute Career Hack.

It’s a podcast and a coaching company that helps you change your career and get the salary you want.

Jamila joins us from the city of New Orleans.

Now, Jamila, before the break, we were talking about how women can show confidence in a job search, and we dove deeply into the gender differences that exist, particularly in applications, and you shared great advice about what you should think about when reviewing and thinking about applying for a job.

Let’s talk through the advice you share with your clients, women clients about how to show confidence in the job search. One of the first steps you recommend is that women take time to recognize that you are enough. What do you have in mind here, Jamila?

Jamila Brown:

Yeah, that’s the first thing I address, especially when coaching women clients, but also male clients as well, and throughout our community, is that, number one, let’s level set. You are enough. You are capable of doing the job that’s in front of you, and while we might have to level set where you are from a qualifications standpoint, that does not mean you don’t, number one, deserve that opportunity and that you won’t excel in that opportunity. You are absolutely enough, and maybe we just have to finesse and correlate your experience and your education in a way that is appetizing to the recruiters and gets you past the ATS system.

But first and foremost, you need to be committed to you and knowing that you’re enough. That’s so important. And so, we level set there, and we say it out loud, and we rehearse saying it out loud so that they can really embody that and embrace that and start to exude that confidence.

Mac Prichard:

Why do people think they’re not enough? Why do they think they’re not qualified or they don’t have the skills? When, in fact, they do.

Jamila Brown:

I think there’s a variety of reasons, and some might not even stem from what they’ve actually done in their career. It could be workplace trauma that has happened to them, and they’ve had someone, a boss or a peer, or someone give them feedback that wasn’t true, or that they bought into that’s sitting there, subconsciously, that’s holding them back.

I’ve dealt with probably more of that than any other reason as to why someone might not be confident. But it’s very difficult for them to realize that that’s the reason, so a lot of times, I’ll take them through an exercise where we just start talking about the first time you felt like you weren’t good enough to be in this role.

Do you remember when that time was? And taking that time to really reflect and go back into their history, if you will, when they uncovered the moment, and we work through that entire experience, they’re able to unlock and move forward, especially when we situate the experience in its proper context and its proper place; they’re able to move forward. But that’s more often than not, what’s the cause of lacking that confidence and not believing that they’re enough.

Mac Prichard:

So that’s a way to understand your value, especially if you’re a woman. What stops people from doing this, from taking that step?

Jamila Brown:

Well, number one, you need a coach. I believe everyone needs a coach for any area of their life that they’re trying to grow in. Whether that’s you want to lose weight or you want to eat better, whatever that might look like. Sometimes it helps to have an independent person assess the situation and guide you through to get to the results that you’re looking for.

I think that’s oftentimes the issue. It’s not so much that they don’t want to get through it; it’s just that they don’t even know how to navigate or where to start.

Mac Prichard:

The second step you recommend women take to show confidence in a job search is to trust the process. Tell us more about this, Jamila.

Jamila Brown:

Yes, I think we automatically have an ego situation going on, if you will, in all of our minds, about whether or not we’re gonna be accepted or rejected. And the interview process, or the application process, at the start, has nothing to do with acceptance or rejection.

Getting that off the table, throwing that out of the window early, helps them to be more mechanical and businesslike in the application process. So, we really coach individuals to understand that this is a business. Your brand is a professional brand; it is a business, and the application process is a part of that.

You’re not going to get an interview for every application that you put out there. You’re not going to get a job offer for every interview that you go on. And every job is not the job that you actually want. You may learn something through that process; just like any other dating relationship or any other business relationship, it’s important to go through the entire exercise and not take it personal.

Mac Prichard:

How do you recommend listeners, especially women, both set and manage expectations as they go through this job search process?

Jamila Brown:

I often like to start with a formula. It’s not absolute, and it’s not statistically proven by science, but having some numbers, to your point, those that are numbers people, having some numbers to guide you on, okay, if I fill out ten applications, I’ll probably get 20% response. It might not include an interview, but I’ll probably get one or two interviews, potentially. Provided all things are equal from a resume, LinkedIn, and experience standpoint, I’ll probably get one interview.

If I get one interview, my probability of getting a job offer is only about 50%, at best, once you get the interview. At best. So that formula doesn’t get you the job offer. You probably will need to do more interviews.

And that might vary a little bit from industry to industry, but that’s the part that we really work with our clients and our community on is really focusing on your specific industry, as well as your experience and the volume of applications, the right applications, that you need to fill out to get interviews and turn those into job offers.

Mac Prichard:

When you understand and trust the job search process, how does that help with confidence during your job search, especially for women?

Jamila Brown:

Well, number one, if you’re not thinking about the fact that I’m being rejected as a person, that is the first thing. You’re able to just do this like a machine, like a business, and crank out to get the result that you want to get. So, I think that’s the first thing.

And then second, you’ll enter the interview process, the job offer phase, prepared to negotiate because you’re treating it like a business and not a personal situation, where they’re rejecting me or not raising my salary to the place that I would want to, to take this job. You take your emotions completely off the table when you’re just focused on the complete process, the entire employment life cycle, from start to finish, and you’ll also set an incredible tone with the team that you’re gonna eventually be working with about your boundaries, your expectations, and the results that you’re required to get.

It’s an incredible process when you encompass it all together, and are you able to execute in each stage like it’s truly something that’s working for you versus it’s personal, and I don’t feel good when I get rejected. It can create an incredible, incredible experience for people.

Mac Prichard:

Another way you say women can show confidence in a job search is to make sure you have options. What do you mean here, Jamila?

Jamila Brown:

Personally, there’s always gonna be that job that you really, really want or that company that you really, really want to work for, and I believe it’s important to have those targets in sight. We all should dream. We all should hope for what we really want in life. But it’s extremely important that we all understand that timing is everything.

So, having options, multiple options, or other places, an ABCD plan while you work toward the ultimate dream and ultimate goal is critical. So, someone coming right out of college, you may not be able to get that job that you want today. But what is the ABCDE, maybe even F, part of that plan that leads you to that?

So, having multiple options at each stage of your career if the A option isn’t available, is important.

Mac Prichard:

How does having more choices, having more options help women show confidence in a job search?

Jamila Brown:

Yeah, it feels great to be wanted. I learned this at an early age, being recruited out of high school to play at the next level in college; it feels amazing when more colleges want to recruit you and have you come play at their school. Just having one doesn’t feel good. It doesn’t feel good.

Again, we’ll go back to that ego part; it feels good to know that people want you. So when you have options, it absolutely instills confidence that I get to make a choice in this situation about what I want to do next. It also positions you and gives you leverage to negotiate, which is huge.

It’s a very huge point, from a salary and compensation standpoint, that I believe all women should be in position to achieve, as well as men.

Mac Prichard:

Finally, you say in order to show confidence in a job search, you always have to be willing to try. How does this help women, in particular, show confidence when they’re looking for work?

Jamila Brown:

Well, if you don’t try, I’m sure everybody’s parents at some point told them, if you don’t try, you’ll never have the opportunity to achieve and get the thing that you want. And sometimes, trying means actual development in the process. Like I mentioned earlier, in the interview process, if you take that interview and you’re able to connect with the recruiter, you have an opportunity to ask some questions of that recruiter to help you get better in the interview process, as well as qualify for that job if you don’t get it in that moment.

But if you never try, if you never attempt, you’re just sitting there in your thoughts about what could have been, and that’s not a great place to be, mentally or emotionally. And it definitely doesn’t breed confidence when you go into that next mode of, let me apply for this job. Because all you’re thinking about is the one that you didn’t apply for that you really wanted to.

Mac Prichard:

Well, it’s been a great conversation, Jamila. Now, tell us, what’s next for you?

Jamila Brown:

I’ll tell you, we’re doing some exciting things at the 5 Minute Career Hack. It is an incredible season for us right now and, honestly, for all coaches, for that matter. It’s a growing industry that doesn’t even seem to have a ceiling.

We just started an interview series; I shared with you offline as well, Mac, that we’re really excited for, and we’re bringing entrepreneurs; we’re bringing different industries to the table for folks to share their journey with our audience.

And so you can tap into that on our YouTube channel and see this interview series every Monday. It’s such an exciting series because we’re getting people from all over the world, and from all walks of life, and from all industries, that you can learn from in less than twenty minutes every week, if that’s an industry you’re interested in, or if something resonates in their story to help you grow and go be, create yourself.

Mac Prichard:

It is indeed a great YouTube channel, and I hope listeners will check it out. We’ll be sure to include a URL for the 5 Minute Career Hack in the show notes and the website article about your interview.

And I know, Jamila, you also encourage listeners to connect with you on LinkedIn. As always, I hope they’ll mention they heard you on Find Your Dream Job when they do reach out to you.

Now, given all the great advice you’ve shared today, Jamila, what’s the one thing you want a listener to remember about how women can show confidence in a job search?

Jamila Brown:

The thing I would share with women is, number one, you only live once. And I know it sounds very cliché, but you truly only live once. To not go for the things that you want and desire, and frankly, are probably overqualified for, would be a shame. Go be that example for the next woman coming behind you. And strive to be your best in this moment today.

Be present. And go after what you want to go after today.

Mac Prichard:

Make sure you never miss an episode of Find Your Dream Job.

Subscribe to our free podcast newsletter.

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Next week, our guest will be Ellen Recko.

She’s a career coach with Lake Grove Job Seekers.

It’s a nonprofit that helps with career transition.

Looking for a job is a team sport.

You can’t do it alone.

And every job search team needs one or more mentors.

Join us next Wednesday when Ellen Recko and I talk about how mentors can help in your job search.

Until next time, thanks for letting us help you find your dream job.

This show is produced by Mac’s List.

Susan Thornton-Hough schedules our guests and writes our newsletter. Lisa Kislingbury Anderson manages our social media.

Our sound engineer is Matt Fiorillo. Ryan Morrison at Podfly Productions edits the show. Dawn Mole creates our transcripts. And our music is by Freddy Trujillo.

This is Mac Prichard. See you next week.