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How to Explain Why You Left Your Last Job, with Heather Joy

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You’ve been fired or laid off, or perhaps you took time off for personal reasons. How much of that information do you have to share in an interview for a new job? Not much, says Find Your Dream Job guest Heather Joy. You can share the main point – you were laid off or took time to care for a family member – but anymore than that isn’t necessary. Heather cautions that if an interviewer continues to dig for more than that, it’s a red flag. She shares strategies for moving the conversation along to what you have to offer and how you can fill the need they have.

About Our Guest:

Heather Joy is the founder and owner of Write Path Resumes & Career Coaching.

Resources in This Episode:

Transcript

Find Your Dream Job, Episode 466:

How to Explain Why You Left Your Last Job, with Heather Joy

Airdate: September 4, 2024

Mac Prichard:

This is Find Your Dream Job, the podcast that helps you get hired, have the career you want, and make a difference in life.

I’m your host, Mac Prichard. I’m also the founder of Mac’s List. It’s a job board in the Pacific Northwest that helps you find a fulfilling career.

Every Wednesday, I talk to a different expert about the tools you need to get the work you want.

Every hiring manager you meet will want to know why you’re changing jobs.

Your response, especially if you were fired or laid off, can make a huge difference in getting an offer.

Heather Joy is here to talk about how to explain why you left your last job.

She’s the founder and owner of Write Path Resumes & Career Coaching.

Heather’s company specializes in career coaching with a focus on interviews, resumes, and LinkedIn profiles.

She joins us from Forest Grove, Oregon.

Well, let’s jump right into it, Heather. Why do interviewers care at all about why you left your last job?

Heather Joy:

That’s a good question. Well, of course, they may be concerned about if you were a good resource, if you had a negative history, or if there’s something wrong with your background. If you’ve switched jobs pretty frequently, they’re going to notice that on your resume, but some interviewers will still be willing to interview you to find out why that was and still be willing to hire you.

Their biggest concerns are if you’ve been difficult to work with, if there’s any red flags for them.

Mac Prichard:

You work with a lot of candidates. What mistakes do you see applicants make when they answer this question?

Heather Joy:

Probably the biggest mistake is actually two-fold. One, they get very nervous and not confident about answering the question, when most of the time, it’s a very logical reason. A typical reason right now is lay-offs, and the interviewers are actually expecting to hear that one the most at this point.

But another mistake that they make is being overly honest. You have to remember that in the interview, they don’t really care about you. They care about what you can do for them, and no matter how nice the interviewer is, they are looking for a reason not to hire you as much as they are to hire you. They’re not your friend. So, you want to keep your answer honest but relevant.

There’s a lot of details that they might not need to know that have nothing to do with whether you’re going to do a good job for them or not.

Mac Prichard:

Now, thinking about that answer, you’ve got a formula that you share with your clients. It has three parts, that you recommend following for how to answer the question, “Why have you left your last job?” And the three parts are an introduction, an explanation of why you left, and a question about the interviewer’s challenges.

Can you walk us through those three parts and break that down?

Heather Joy:

Yes, absolutely. When you’re answering this question, it’s important to understand you want to keep them moving. You don’t want the interviewer to rest in the fact that you were laid off or fired or that you are leaving your job. That’s not the important piece. The important thing is that you are going to do a great job for them and that you care about their problem, and you can help them.

With these different parts of, “Why are you looking for a new position?” Sometimes, it’s asked, “Why did you leave your previous position?” Or, “Why are you leaving?” Those all have the same answer.

What I like to do is walk you through what that sounds like, show you what it sounds like, and then tell you what each piece will do for you from the interviewer’s perspective.

What I would say if I was in an interview is, I’d have to first tell them the the why. The why is the only piece really that you need to adjust very much, so some of the different reasons could be you went through a lay-off, maybe you took your role as far as it could go, there’s no further growth that you can realize at that organization, or you’re not happy there, but we want to keep it positive, so maybe you’ve taken your role as far as it could go.

Maybe you took time off to care for a very ill family member. You could be the ill family; they don’t need to know that, they don’t need to know the details, and it’s to your detriment if you talk about that too much.

What that would sound like is, “I’ve really loved working for my current organization, and I’ve had several opportunities to have a positive impact. I’m happy to walk you through some of those accomplishments highlighted here on my resume. However, as you know, with the Covid environment, many organizations across the US, if not the world, have gone through major reorganizations.

“That happened to my company as well, so now, I’m looking for a new, long-term growth opportunity with an organization like yours, in a role just like this. In fact, I’m interviewing for roles just like this over the next few months. Tell me more about some of the challenges you’d like my help with.”

What that does for you is, first of all, you’re telling them that there’s nothing shady to see here. There’s no drama. It’s a totally normal reason, (layoffs), that I’ve left my job, or you’ve left your job.

The second part is you’re telling them you know exactly what you want. You’re not applying for anything and everything. You’re very specific about the types of roles and organizations that you’re interested in working for, and that tells them that there’s longevity with you, that you’re unlikely to change your mind, and they’re more willing to make an investment with you if you are willing to dedicate your time to them.

You’re also creating a subtle sense of urgency by saying, “In fact, I’m interviewing for roles just like this over the next few months.” That tells them that other people are interested in hiring you and that you have other options. You’re making your decision very carefully and taking it seriously. Time is of the essence, and you’re going to be making a decision soon.

Finally, you’re flipping it back around to them with another strategic question while taking ownership of that position and advance.

Mac Prichard:

So there are three parts: part one, you’re explaining what you did; part two, you’re explaining why you left and what you’re looking for; and in part three, you’re learning more about that employer and the needs of that company. How does following this formula help you in an interview?

Heather Joy:

It really helps because it helps give you that confidence. First, knowing that you are keeping them moving, you’re actually steering the conversation in the interview by keeping them moving through the parts that are not as important, the fact that you’re leaving your job, to the part that is important, which is what are their professional pain points, what are their professional needs that they need someone to fill for them.

That helps you to control the conversation, which is very empowering. You actually want them to do most of the talking, and you don’t need to carry the interview; the interviewee does not need to carry the conversation. You actually want the interviewer to do most of the talking because you have to identify red flags. You want to see what their needs are and be truly focused on them, and that will increase their connection to you and their willingness to engage because now, at the very end, you’re getting them to talk about those pain points.

Whenever someone is listening to you, when you have a pain point, that increases your connection to them.

Mac Prichard:

What’s the biggest challenge you find when you coach people about how to use this formula, Heather? What stops them from doing it?

Heather Joy:

One of the biggest ones more recently that I’ve realized is that sometimes it’s different depending on if you’re talking to a recruiter or an HR manager, with the question, “Tell me more about some of the challenges you’d like my help with.” With that whole answer, you’re actually answering four, at least four different questions in one, which is great, but one of the challenges is that if you tell them, “Tell me more about some of the challenges you’d need my help with, if it’s an HR person or a recruiter, they might not know because they actually work in that department or understand that work. So, we can change that question at the end, to, “Tell me more about this position. I’m really excited to learn more.” That can be very helpful with the recruiter situation.

Mac Prichard:

Terrific. I want to take a quick break and when we come back, I want to walk through how to apply this formula to the four different scenarios that are most likely happening when someone leaves their job.

Stay with us. When we return, Heather Joy will continue to share her advice on how to explain why you left your last job.

We’re back in the Mac’s List studio. I’m talking with Heather Joy.

She’s the founder and owner of Write Path Resumes & Career Coaching.

Heather’s company specializes in career coaching with a focus on interviews, resumes, and LinkedIn profiles.

She joins us from Forest Grove, Oregon.

Now, Heather, before the break, we were talking about how to explain why you left your last job, and you took us through the three-step formula that you use with your clients about how to answer this question, and as you mentioned in the first segment, there are a number of common scenarios for why people leave a position.

The top four are: you were laid off, you were fired, you took medical or family leave, or you wanted a position with new responsibilities. You’d done everything that you could accomplish in your previous position.

I want to talk about, when you get this question, how much should you share? Particularly when laid off or fired and you’re worried that an employer might want to dig into that. What do you recommend to your clients, Heather?

Heather Joy:

That’s a really good question and, yes, absolutely one of the things that causes anxiety for interviewees.

First of all, your mindset needs to be in the right place. There isn’t anything that you’re talking about that has anything to do with you doing a bad job. We want to keep this very positive, and they are going to want to know the reason. Now, with the strategy that I shared with you earlier, ideally, that’s going to be good enough, and we’re keeping them moving along, and we’re getting them to talk.

However, there are going to be some of those interviewers who want to dig in a little bit more on the why. If it’s a family leave, you don’t want to tell them specific reasons and the why behind that is- let’s say it’s kids. You took time off because you had a baby, well, now they’re going to be thinking about other times that you’re going to want off for that and if that’s going to be more complicated.

They’re not going to tell you that because that could be a potential lawsuit, but you don’t want to volunteer any of that information.

Let’s say you or your family member had cancer. Well, now they may be thinking about the five-year life expectancy and all the treatments and other things that you might need time off for in the future. With that answer, you’d just want to say, and hopefully, this would be enough for them, “I took time off to care for a very ill family member; that’s all now resolved, and now I’m looking for a new, long term, growth opportunity” et cetera.

If they are asking about, maybe you were fired, that is still a reorganization. You can say your company reorganized. Even if they only reorganized one person, it is still a reorganization, and just by using those words yourself, or that phrasing, that gives you more confidence, too. You’re still telling the truth, but you’re not giving them all the details that they don’t need, and it doesn’t really matter, and we’re keeping them moving along, again, to what their professional or business pain points are.

Now, if you have a really good formula down and you understand the reason why it works and why it is best for the interviewer because we want to help them, too, then that gives you more confidence in being able to push back and keep them moving.

Now, when I say pushback, you might get that interviewer who’s really digging deep, like that’s not good enough for them, and they want more information. That’s a red flag, and I believe that the work meant for you will come to you, and you want to pay attention to those red flags. Ignoring red flags is not a superpower. Which I have learned through my experience, and so if someone in the interview room is asking you more detailed questions, “Why were you laid off?”

Or, ” What happened with that reorganization? I want more details.” And they’re really digging, you can say, “Well, like I said, I had several opportunities to make a positive impact. This is a reorganization that a lot of companies are going through. What specifically is your concern about that?” Or you could try to redirect them and say something like, “Would you like me to tell about some of my top accomplishments that I achieved in this organization? How I improved business or increased business,” et cetera.

Again, we want to try to keep them moving. If they won’t let it go, that is a red flag, and that might not be the right place for you.

Mac Prichard:

Okay, so a couple of points that I’m gathering from that, it’s very useful, is be honest but don’t overshare. Am I hearing that right?

Heather Joy:

Yes, they are not your friend.

Mac Prichard:

Okay, so give a direct and simple explanation, and again, be honest; don’t overshare. Tell me more about why it’s a red flag if an employer presses you on a layoff or is talking about a dismissal. Why should a candidate be concerned about that?

Heather Joy:

There’s a couple of different reasons; one of them could be, this is a small world, and they might know someone at the company that you used to work for, and that might get them to go fishing for additional information that you don’t want them to. It could be that they’ve had a bad experience. That they’ve had high turnover, and people aren’t working out, but that also says something about the company, if they have high turnover in that role.

Whenever you can flip it back onto them with another strategic question, that’s going to help you, yourself, dig into why are they doing that. You could say things like, “Tell me about some of your concerns with this. Why is this position open? How did this position become available?” That might get them to confess, essentially, what’s really going on.

When that happens, with any question that you ask them when they’re answering them, if they’re being negative or derogatory about people or the company, or throwing people under the bus and blaming, that tells you that they’ll be willing to do that with you as well and maybe hard to please or unreasonable.

If they’re not willing to move along and focus on the professional reasons why you’re there, then that tells you that it might be more of a challenging work environment that you don’t want.

Mac Prichard:

Interview the employer just as much as they’re interviewing you. When you’re getting ready for these conversations, what kind of practice do you recommend for answering that question explaining why you left your last job? What have you seen be effective in helping people apply the formula that you laid out in the first segment?

Heather Joy:

The first thing I start with when I’m coaching anyone is actually mindset. The two main reasons people get nervous in an interview that I have found are, one, they put the interviewer on a pedestal and automatically think, ‘Well, they’re better than I am because they have this job or title or both.’ The second reason is because they overanalyze the negative or ambiguous things about themself or the situation.

“Why did I wear this outift?” Or, “What am I going to wear?” “I hope they don’t ask this question.” “Why did I say that? Am I going to get this job?” And that is not being others-focused. We’re being self-focused when we think that way.

What you need to be is others-focused, and in preparing for the interview, it really helps if you, instead, take the interviewer off the pedestal and think of them as if they are a potential client with a challenge and you have or are the solution. If you weren’t, you wouldn’t be there. They’ve already decided, more than 50%, that you are a good fit for this role, and now they’re deciding if you’re going to get along, if you really do know what you’re talking about, et cetera.

With that interviewer in front of you, you can think of them as that potential client with a challenge. Another way to visualize this is to imagine that they are a tourist. You’re walking down the street of your hometown, and a tourist comes up to you and asks you for directions. Your mind and body become completely engaged in helping them get what they need or where they need to go. You’re not thinking about yourself in that moment.

If you can think of them in that way in the interview, this is another internal or external client that comes up to you and asks for professional advice to solve problems every day in your job, this interviewer is the same person. They are also a potential client or a tourist, and they need your help.

Now, you’re on equal footing, and you’re completely engaged in helping them get what they need and being focused on what those needs are.

Mac Prichard:

It’s been a terrific conversation, Heather. Now, tell us, what’s next for you?

Heather Joy:

I am starting now in doing workshops for colleges, universities, trade schools, on modern resume writing and LinkedIn strategy, that incorporates modern technology such as applicant tracking systems in creating the document and approaching LinkedIn for networking and all of that. I really enjoy doing those group sessions. I love the individual sessions I do as well, but I’m excited to be expanding in that direction.

Mac Prichard:

Well, terrific. I know listeners can learn more about you by connecting with you on LinkedIn, and when they do reach out to you, please mention that you heard Heather on Find Your Dream Job.

Now, Heather, given all of the great advice that you’ve shared today, what’s the one thing you want a listener to remember about how to explain why you left your last job?

Heather Joy:

It’s really important to remember that if you have this strategy down, that you’re going to be more confident in how you approach that. When you prepare for interviewing in general, of course, go over typical questions you think that they’ll ask you, but embrace the fact that there’s nothing wrong with your background. That you have a good reason for leaving, or it just happened because it’s a layoff, and there’s nothing fishy about that.

If you embrace that with confidence, and you embrace challenges instead of running away from it, and you bring that feeling to the interview, then the interviewer will embrace that, too, and they will have confidence in you.

Mac Prichard:

Next week, our guest will be Kareem Rogers.

He’s a recruiter, a career coach, and the owner of the HR Depot

Kareem’s company improves the quality of life of job seekers through resume and coaching services.

You will do many job searches in your career.

And there will be times when you face more competition for fewer positions

When this happens you need to use strategies that give you an edge over your competitors.

Join us next Wednesday when Kareem Rogers and I talk about 4 steps to stand out in a tough job market.

Until next time, thanks for letting us help you find your dream job.

This show is produced by Mac’s List.

Susan Thornton-Hough schedules our guests and writes our newsletter. Lisa Kislingbury Anderson manages our social media.

Our sound engineer and editor is Matt Fiorillo. Dawn Mole creates our transcripts. And our music is by Freddy Trujillo.

This is Mac Prichard. See you next week.