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How to Find Work Overseas, with Marcelle Yeager

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Have you ever wondered what it would be like to live in foreign country and have an overseas job?

More people than ever are living and working outside the country where they were born. According to the United Nations, the number of international migrants now stands at a record 232 million people. That’s a significant increase since 1990. For many of these people the move to a new country is permanent; for others, it may be a temporary stay for a year or two.

This week we talk about how to find work outside the United States. Our guest is Marcelle Yeager a career coach and recruiter with deep experience in international employment. Marcelle shares tips for how to find and land work opportunities throughout the world.

This Week’s Guest

Marcelle Yeager is president of Career Valet which helps jobseekers get in the door for interviews that take them to the next level of their careers. She’s also the founder of Serving Talent, a full-service recruiting agency for professional military and government spouses. Marcelle is a regular contributor to US News and World Reports on their career blog.

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Transcript

Mac Prichard:

This is Find Your Dream Job, the podcast that helps you get hired and the career you want and make a difference in life. I’m Mac Prichard, your host and publisher of Mac’s List. Our show is brought to you by our book, “Land Your Dream Job in Portland and Beyond.” To learn more about the book and the updated edition that we published on February 1st, visit macslist.org/book. I’m joined by my co-host, Ben Forstag, managing director of Mac’s List and this week’s special co-host, Jenny Foss of JobJenny.com.

Ben Forstag:

Hey Mac, Ben here.

Mac Prichard:

Hey Ben.

Ben Forstag::

Before I started working at Mac’s List, I was unemployed for about four months and looking back, I wish I’d read Land Your Dream Job! It would probably save me quite a bit of time and some frustration on my job search. But when I read the book now, what really strikes me is how much useful information there is even for people who already have a job.

Mac Prichard:

You need to think not just about finding your next job whether you’re employed or looking for work, but your career as a whole. Because as you know, Ben, job hunting and career management are skills and like any skill, they can be mastered. One of the things we set out to do with the book was to help people do that. I know you’ve read the book and in fact, you played a big part in it’s production. As you know, we take you through all the important steps you need to follow to get your dream job. Readers will find chapters about goal setting, network, resumes, online profiles, job interviews, and salary negotiations. What helps both the job hunter and the career manager is you learn you get access to insider advice from experts. If you do buy a PDF version of the book, you’ll also get some extras. The bonuses include a fact sheet about salary negotiation, a video about how to work with recruiting agencies, and an audio interview with our co-host this week, Jenny Foss, about how to craft a killer resume. You remember putting that together, Jenny?

Jenny Foss:

I do, yes. I think I made it through that one in one piece, so that’s why I agreed to come back for more.

Mac Prichard:

Actually, your mother was visiting from your hometown. It was nice to meet her.

Jenny Foss:

Oh, she was. Yes, we had an audience, yes.

Mac Prichard:

Remember that?

Jenny Foss:

Yes, an audience of one.

Mac Prichard:

I think you told me that one of the advantages of having her there was she like many parents and certainly my dad is in this category. You said it really gave her an inside into what you did for a living.

Jenny Foss:

Absolutely. She’s not online everyday, so she’s not really walking the evolution of JobJenny.com. Having her front and center was fun for her and for me, too. I don’t see her that often.

Mac Prichard:

Okay. Whether you’d like to hear that interview, get those other bonuses. We hope you’ll consider buying the PDF version of the book. You can find it on our website at Macslist.org. But even if you don’t buy the PDF, it’s also available on Kindle and paper back. You’ll find great tools you can use to get your next job and have a dream career. Have you ever wondered what it would be like to live and work in a foreign country? More people than ever are living and working outside of the country where they were born. According to the United Nations, the number of international migrants now stands at a record 232 million. That’s a significant increase since 1990. For many of these people to move to a new homeland is a permanent one. For others, it might be a temporary stay for a year or two.

This week on Find Your Dream Job, we’re talking about how to look for work overseas. Ben Forstag has a website people can use to look for jobs abroad. Our guest co-host, Jenny Foss, tells a listener how to look for and find a job from 2000 miles away. I talked to our guest expert, Marcelle Yeager of Career Valet who joins us from Santiago, Chile. We’re back in the Mac’s List studio and joining us this week is our guest co-host is Jenny Foss of JobJenny.com. Jenny, Ben, how about you two? Have you ever worked overseas?

Ben Forstag::

I spent two years working for the YMCA in Madrid, Spain. I was a coordinating international programs for them and it was a really interesting great experience. I’m glad I did it.

Mac Prichard:

What was your big take away from that experience, Ben?

Ben Forstag::

Well, two. One was it’s always good to have some kind of international experience to see different cultures, to work with different people, to experience different types of work, and anyone who’s familiar with the Spanish culture knows that how they work there is definitely different than how we work in the United States. Namely, it’s just a little bit slower and a little bit more laid back. At that time in my life, that was an important thing for me to try out and see. I’ll be honest, I didn’t like it very much. It was too slow for me. The other aspect of the experience for me was this was kind of more of the mundane experience which was after the first month of working abroad, I realized I’ve gotten to this routine where I’d wake up, I go to work. After work, I’d go get some groceries, come home, make dinner, watch some TV, and go to bed. Which is the same exact thing I was doing in the United States. I just gotten into this routine and this habit.

Like living abroad, there are a lot of great things about it, but it also kind of got into the same pattern when I was in the United States and I just think that’s this the natural habit of work and the pattern of work.

Mac Prichard:

There were no salsa lessons after work?

Ben Forstag::

Occasionally, there were salsa lessons or tapas or glass of bear down at the bar. But most of the time, it was just the same patterns that we have in one place. We tend to bring with us other places.

Mac Prichard:

Okay. How about you, Jenny? Have you’ve been overseas?

Ben Forstag::

Not in an official assignment for a long-term overseas, but I did accompany a co-worker one time to France who was assigned to teach a group of people who work for our company some new software programs. I helped get the entire room ready for software training which was multiple workstations. Strangely enough, all plugged into one common plug in the wall which was kind of entertaining right up into the point that I tripped over that plug in the wall and took the whole room down in the middle of the training session. To say all eyes were on me was a bit of an understatement, but it was a really fun experience other than that horrifically embarrassing moment. For some of the same reasons that Ben pointed out was that it’s so different and just kind of learning to embrace the pace and the style with which people work in different country I thought was incredibly valuable. I never lived down the core though.

Mac Prichard:

We’re talking about this at a recent Mac’s List event about how every job position now says you need to be an excellent multi-cultural communicator. This is one of those skills that’s really hard to prove, right? It’s not enough just to write on your cover letter, “I’m a great multi-cultural communicator.” But experiences abroad whether you’re working there, living there for a long time or just visiting, that’s really walking the walk, not just talking the talk and it’s some evidence that you can show to employers, “Look, these are experiences I have that do show that I’m able to communicate multi-culturally with different types of people with different cultures, with different patterns of work.

Jenny Foss:

I will argue that if you take down an entire room of computers in any country, there’s kind of a universal language that is spoken.

Mac Prichard:

As you say that, Jenny, I’m taking up a scene from one of the Walking Dead shows which shows Los Angeles falling into blackout as light after light in a block goes off. Was it like that in the computer room?

Jenny Foss:

Somehow I just managed to be at the helm of everyone of those types of operational mishaps. That was definitely a memorable experience abroad.

Mac Prichard:

Are you allowed back there now?

Jenny Foss:

After I took them all out for wine, I was forgiven.

Mac Prichard:

Okay. You’ve had no problem navigating the Visa desk in Paris since then.

Jenny Foss:

No.

Mac Prichard:

Okay. We wonder if you might be on a watch list. My experience working overseas was in Central America when I work for a human rights group. We would take members of Congress on fact finding trips to El Salvador, Nicaragua. This is back in the 1980s and it was a great way to perfect my organizational skills but it also taught me humility because much of my work was done in Spanish and my Spanish was good, but it was not great. It got better the longer I was there. Ben, let’s turn to you. You’re out there every week looking for resources that people can use in their job search. What have you found for us?

Ben Forstag::

Today, I want to talk a little bit about a website that we mentioned in passing way back in episode 3. The one we did with Tamara Murray. This website is called NomadicMatt.com and it’s a site all about international travel and often about working abroad.

Mac Prichard:

Coincidentally, Ben, I was in Florida the conference since last week. I saw Tamara there and she was on her way to Australia next week.

Ben Forstag::

Okay. She lives a pretty exciting life.

Mac Prichard:

She does.

Ben Forstag::

This is a site, it’s written by a guy named Matt Kepnis. It’s a great site for who’s passionate about international travel. Matt offers all kinds of useful tips for travel whether you’re a young person taking time off before college or a professional taking a sabbatical from work or retiree or maybe you’re just someone who’s trying to make the most of those two weeks of paid vacation you get each year. One of Matt’s suggestions to elongating your trip and getting more value out of them is to find paid work opportunities abroad. Many of the posts on his blog are dedicated to this topic including personal stories from people who have found sustainable work around the world. I’d like to steer our readers to one specific post appropriately titled “Working Overseas.” Here Matt outlines two of the easiest ways to find work abroad which are one, teaching English.

He notes that jobs are very abundant, the pay is great. The work is easy and the benefits are good too. Now, I actually did teach English a little bit in Spain and I wouldn’t say it’s an easy job. It’s was pretty grueling and I spend a lot of time chasing after clients and potential clients. If you can get a job teaching English, they generally do pay pretty well especially if you’re a native English speaker. His second suggestion are holiday working schemes which are less nefarious than they sound here. It’s just in many English-speaking Commonwealth nations like Australia, New Zealand, and Canada. Governments offer a simplified Visa application process that allows foreign visitors to legally work in the country for up to a year. These Visas are typically only available to people younger than 30 and the jobs are often service or low wage office jobs.

But it provides an opportunity to get your foot in the door in a new country and have some experience there. I actually had a friend who did this in New Zealand and Australia. He worked in both countries for six months at a time and had a fantastic experience doing that. If you’re interested in learning more about travel and working abroad specifically, you should definitely check out Matt’s site. Again, the URL is NomadicMatt.com and as always, I’ll include a link in the show notes.

Mac Prichard:

Great. Thank you, Ben. Those are excellent suggestions. If you, our listeners, have ideas for Ben, websites, podcasts, books, that you’d like to share that have been helpful in your job search, please write him. His address is info@macslist.org. Now it’s time to hear from you, you our listeners and our guest co-host this week, Jenny Foss of JobJenny.com joins us to answer one of your questions. Jenny, what are you hearing from our listeners?

Jenny Foss:

The question that I have here today, Mac is a great one. It’s one that we hear with some frequency at JobJenny.com as well. The person asks, “I want to move across the country.” Whether that’s Texas or Florida. I’m not sure. She didn’t indicate that. “But I can’t afford to relocate without first having a job lined up. Do you have any advice on how to woo employers when I’m more than 2000 miles away?”

Mac Prichard:

We hear this a lot from other readers at the Mac’s List blog, too and lots of people think about coming to Portland, but they wonder, “Should I get a job first or should I come and look while I’m here.” What’s your advice Jenny?

Jenny Foss:

Well, there are a lot of things that you can do from afar. Probably things that people don’t even understand that they can do. If you are able to start building a network in the location that you want to live in, that’s really advantageous. Not only from the standpoint of you can start to build a foundation upon which you might find a job, but also you’ll know a couple of people when you get to town which will also ease the personal transition as well. However, yes, there are some companies and industries that are reluctant to bring somebody on board that is so far away because they don’t want the expense of bringing them in for an interview or they’re worried that they might get to that new location and simply hate it and after they’ve invested in the time to hire and onboard and train them, they’re like, “Eww, I don’t like it here,” and they go back.

One of the things we always counsel people on and encourage them to do if they are looking from abroad is to make your audience comfortable with your intention to move to that specific geography. You don’t want to look you’re just out there wallpapering the country or the world with resumes randomly. You want to look like you have specific ties to or a specific reason for wanting to be in that geography.

Mac Prichard:

I think that’s spot on. The people who I have seen move to town who may contact me during the course of their search, usually, it is a long term process. It’s three to six months. They usually make some kind of strategic choice, “I might going to get a job before I move here,” or, “I’m going to move and keep looking.” But whatever their choice, they start early and they work consistently. They also, to your point about local connections, they make a point of describing what it is that is bringing them to the place, in this case, Oregon, whether it’s family, friends, or whatever their ties might be. They mentioned that in passing and I think that puts people at ease and helps the listener understand why this person is coming to the city.

Jenny Foss:

Right. If you can make it look like it’s something that’s already in motion, that makes the employer maybe a less nervous about it. Not only from how-are-they-once-they-get-here standpoint, but it might even help them understand that perhaps you’d be willing to move here without any relocation package as well which can be super helpful and help you clinch the deal if you’re competing with local candidates.

Ben Forstag::

I know when I was applying for jobs living in Washington, DC, applying for jobs in Portland that is. A common line in my cover letter was always “I am marrying an Oregonian in August,” which was just proof that I’m actually moving here. It’s a fait accompli as they say and I’m backing up commitment to be there.

Mac Prichard:

Two of the best pieces of advice I got when I was moving here from the east coast more than 20 years ago was to give upfront reason why and I had this rambling explanation and a friend said, “No, the one thing that stands out when you’ve told me is that you’re attracted by the quality of life in Oregon. Why don’t you just talk about that.” I saw people respond very positively to it and the other to your point about connections and ties, Jenny is do you have any family ties to Oregon. I did have an aunt that I grew up hearing about in the midwest who had lived here for decades. But she’d long since left Oregon, but I mention those family ties and I could see that that put employers at ease.

Jenny Foss:

Sure it does.

Mac Prichard:

Yeah.

Jenny Foss:

One of the nice things about Oregon is this, too. We are a very welcoming state and Portland is a very welcoming community for new people. Even if you do decide to come here without securing first the employment, being the new kid in town, you can use that to your advantage because people really go out of their way here to help the new guy. For anyone considering that move, know that we’re going to welcome you with open arms.

Mac Prichard:

Where ever you might be considering moving, if you don’t receive relocation assistance from your employer. Remember that if you do move for a job that those moving expenses are tax deductible.

Jenny Foss:

Yes.

Mac Prichard:

Great. Well, thank you, Jenny. If you have a question for us, please email us at communitymanager@macslist.org. These segments are sponsored by the 2016 Edition of Land Your Dream Job in Portland and Beyond. We’d made our book even better. We’ve added new content and now we’re offering it in formats that you want. For the first time ever, you can read Land Your Dream Job in Portland and Beyond as a paperback, or download it onto your Kindle, Nook, or iPad. Whatever the format, our goal is the same. We want to give you the tools and tips you need to get meaningful work that makes a difference. For more information, visit macslist.org/book and sign up for a special book newsletter. You’ll get updates not available elsewhere as well as exclusive book content and special discounts. Now, let’s turn to this week’s guest expert, Marcelle Yeager.

Marcelle Yeager is president of Career Valet which helps jobseekers get in the door for interviews that take them to the next level of their careers. She’s also the founder of Serving Talent, a full-service recruiting agency for professional military and government spouses. Marcelle is a regular contributor to US News and World Reports on career blog. She also holds a BA from Georgetown University and an MBA from the University of Maryland and she’s joining us today from Santiago, Chile. Marcelle, thanks for coming on the show.

Marcelle Yeager:

Thank you so much for hosting me, Mac.

Mac Prichard:

It’s a pleasure to have you here. Our topic today is looking for work overseas. Now, let’s talk about what people need to do first when they’re looking for a job overseas.

Marcelle Yeager:

I think the first step is really networking because before you start preparing applications, you really need to find out what are the expectations of the country you’re planning to move to or countries. Because it can differ greatly as far as what they’re looking for whether it’s a longer form CV or shorter resume and those are questions that you probably want to answer ahead of time before spending too much on those. I think the best way is to reach out to all your networks and spread your net as widely as you can, I guess, in order to find people through second degree or third degree connections even who might be able to advise you or know people that have worked in that country specifically or companies even to help you do that and prepare well.

Mac Prichard:

We’re assuming people know where they want to move or what company they’d like to transfer within a particular region and networking, I agree, is always a smart thing to do and often the best first step to take. Are there specific suggestions you have, Marcelle, you have for people who are in particular interested in working overseas. Groups or special steps they might take for someone who’s networking to work abroad?

Marcelle Yeager:

Yes, definitely. Some are more general and you would even use in the United States and then there’s others that are more specific you can delve into. The first thing I would say is beyond LinkedIn which is the obvious connector these days online and also offers international and country-specific networking groups that you can certainly search for. Another place to look that might no be so obvious would be in your alumni networks, whether it’s alumni, some companies even have alumni groups from former employees to keep in touch or perhaps your schools that you graduated from including high school. To reach to those networks and try and see if that there might be people who either are living or had lived in some of the places of interest. Another thing might be to find groups of professionals in your field internationally and that could be on anything from Facebook to LinkedIn among others.

Another thing that might not occur that’s also on Facebook to people as readily would be expat networking groups and a lot of these are not necessarily professional but there are some geared to all types of different people. Say you know you want to move to Europe, you might find groups of young expats who are living in Europe. You might find women’s groups. There’s a lot of international women’s groups in different countries that expats join. Another thing might be if you have a family or parent forums on Facebook. I’ve also seen quite a few sporting groups particular interest where people gather to do hiking or tennis or soccer, something like that. These groups, again, while they’re not professionally focused, they can really introduce you to some different networks within the place you’re looking at. It might give you an opportunity to ask questions about, “Hey, does anyone you know know any IT-related resources for finding jobs over there?” Something just to join to get you more used to the network there, get you further into developing a network there and so forth before you actually move.

Mac Prichard:

Those are good points because networks are available to you no matter how small your town might be. The United States, for example, virtually every town has a rotary and it is an international organization and there is a network there that can extend very far. You just have to tap into it. What about research, Marcelle? When I think about going overseas, I imagine our listeners have this thought too. You not only have to have passport obviously, but what about Visas and work permits and diplomas and certificates?

Marcelle Yeager:

Yes, that can be tricky. You do have to know what you’re getting into in terms of that. Usually, it’s fairly easy to research that online in terms of what the requirements are. The harder thing to tell of course will be whether an employer requires it for a particular job. I know the United States can be more transparent about that. I guess a lot of companies will actually state you have to be a citizen or you can hold a work Visa to get the job and that might not be the case overseas. It is going to depend where you work, but typically, your employer does have to sponsor you. In some countries, if you’re already living there or established residency, it might not be necessary or you might be able to live there for a time and then while you’re looking if you have that capability and then move forward and try to get a work Visa either through the government or through a company.

I know some countries will even offer sort of a blank work permit for an expat. But then others require an actual company or organization to furnish that. Obviously, it’s quite easier if you are already working for a company that can transfer you, but unfortunately, the minority of cases and the harder to do. As you mentioned, it is also important to look into the requirements as far as translating diplomas, certificates, licenses, and those types of things because many countries will require you to present that when you are applying for a Visa or work permit. You want to know the regulations on that and whether that’s something you should be coming in-hand. They might even want to see your US diploma or certificate in the actual true copy, not a copy of it on the printer, so you probably should bring those with you as well in case they want to check because that’s a common practice in many countries.

The other thing to be careful of that people might not think about is that many licenses to practice in certain fields or certificates you might hold might not translate directly. You might be able to present your qualification, but it doesn’t mean that they’re going to consider you have the proper training to perform a particular job and that can be frustrating. But you have to remember that’s reciprocal in the United States as well. Plenty of lawyers and doctors and other professionals have trouble getting license in the United States, so it’s similar to other countries. But again, it depends. Some make exceptions for that, depending on where you’re coming from.

Mac Prichard:

Good, so people need to look into that before they leave and become aware what local requirements might be regarding certifications and paperwork. Now, Marcelle, I know that for many people the first experience they have outside their home country is often a vacation or maybe study abroad while they’re in college. Talk about the challenges that people face when they actually move to a foreign country and it becomes their home whether it’s for a year or several years or even longer and why that’s different than spring break or junior year abroad. What kind of challenges will people face?

Marcelle Yeager:

That’s a good question. I think one of the main things as suggesting to being the expat, right. No longer you in a familiar environment where nobody really takes too much notice of you probably because you’re just another US citizen or English speaker walking down the street. Quite often overseas, it’s very obvious even if you think it’s not. Two people even just watching you walk down the street maybe that you are not from there and whether or not they can determine where you’re from, it could still be quite a challenge. I think it’s an unfamiliarity with the how to of in life overseas and at work that’s a little bit hard to adjust to. I think you just have to be ready and open to that and realize there are going to be frustrating experiences because people might try to take advantage of the fact that you’re a foreigner either professionally or personally in fact.

But just to remind yourself that that might happen and to try to inject as much humor as you can in situations. At the same time, professionally you’re needing to adapt to whole new work culture which I think is something that people might take for granted and I’ve seen it happen a lot where it’s just very hard to adjust to another culture because the team structure can be very different in an office. The management style might be very different where someone’s looking over your shoulder all the time and you’re not used to that for example, or quite the opposite. That’s something again that you should be aware of and read up on and do as much checking into as you can before you make the part.

Mac Prichard:

Be prepared for a change not only in the culture of the country, but in an office and with your new employer. How do you look for work, Marcelle, from your home country? What can you do to start finding jobs and get a head start on your job search even if you’re thinking about moving to a place and looking for work?

Marcelle Yeager:

Often times LinkedIn is used in many regions of the world increasingly so, so I think a lot of companies are using that to post jobs. That might be a first look. One resource that I have found over the years to be very comprehensive is the Rileyguide.com. It’s not only the job search sites, but also resources, so maybe a lot of these things that I’m talking about today might be found there even as far as guidelines for working in other countries and things, other resources and websites that it can point you to to do more research there. I think that might be a first stop for folks. If you’re looking at internships, there is a site called Internweb.com and another one called IHIPO.com.

Mac Prichard:

Okay. We’ll be sure to include links to all of these sites in the show notes, Marcelle.

Marcelle Yeager:

Great, because those if you’re looking to just sort of get more exposure on a field or live in a country for temporary period, those would be good sites to look at also.

Mac Prichard:

Let’s move to our sort of our rapid fire round because I know there are questions on our listeners’ minds that I want to be sure to tap into your expertise. First, are there professions that are in great demand overseas? Fields that are going to make it easier for you to land a position?

Marcelle Yeager:

It’s a great question, but it definitely depends on the country.

Mac Prichard:

Okay. Just quickly, is there one kind of job that is in great demand in the particular that you’re aware of?

Marcelle Yeager:

Anything where a true native English speaker skills are needed I think is always going to be in demand. English teachers, communications, marketing professionals, translators of course. But anything where that skill is needed for sure.

Mac Prichard:

Let’s move on to volunteering. A lot of people have asked me about volunteering overseas and obviously, many people think about the Peace Corps after college. What are the pluses and minuses of volunteer programs?

Marcelle Yeager:

I would say the pluses are you get really deep experience and might get to perform a lot of different roles as a volunteer that you might not get in a regular job. Because you’re asked to do many things and you meet people from all over the world probably in that capacity. I think the minus might be that you might get pretty comfortable and learn a whole lot and want to stay and then have trouble figuring out how to stay on and how to get that work permit to get a full-time job.

Mac Prichard:

Great. Finally, what about taxes and health care. What should people think about when considering those two topics?

Marcelle Yeager:

Taxes are very specific of course. Certain countries give you a grace period where you could be there for hundreds of days even in some countries and not have to pay local taxes. Whereas other countries from day one enforce the rule that you have to pay local taxes and as well as your US taxes. It’s something definitely to look into either with a professional or doing some in depth research online. In terms of healthcare, you can usually get healthcare in-country for fairly cheap depending on where you are. But there’s something to take into consideration if you’re taking regular medications or need regular check ups to make sure the countries up to standard or capable of providing those types of services for you.

Mac Prichard:

Anything else you’d like to share with our listeners, Marcelle?

Marcelle Yeager:

Best of luck. It’s an exciting opportunity if anyone out there is looking to go abroad and really can’t be replaced. It’s a wonderful experience. A tough one, but it’s wonderful and I would encourage anyone who’s thinking about it to go for it and try it. You don’t want to look back and regret not doing it.

Mac Prichard:

That’s a great point to close on. Tell us what is next for you. What’s coming up?

Marcelle Yeager:

I’m actually moving back to the US in several months which I’m looking forward to after five years overseas, so I’ll be working on some new things with my businesses and in particular and doing some pop up clinics to help folks with their resumes both for people staying in the US as well as going abroad.

Mac Prichard:

I know people can find out more about you at your website, that’s Careervalet.com and you could also connect with Marcelle on her LinkedIn page. Just search for her at LinkedIn.com Marcelle Yeager and we’ll be sure to include links to both of those sites in the show notes. Marcelle, thanks so much for joining us.

Marcelle Yeager:

It was a pleasure. Thank you.

Mac Prichard:

We’re back at the Mac’s List studio with Ben and Jenny. Jenny, Ben, what were some of the most important points you heard Marcelle make?

Jenny Foss:

Mac, one of the things that I got out of Marcelle’s discussion with you is one of the first things that she was talking about and that is before you venture off and start putting resumes or CVs out there and trying to entice decision makers, potential employers in outer countries is to first understand what the expectations are and what the cultural practices in job search in the first place in those locations or that location that you’re looking at. Because a resume and a CV and the hiring practices and corporate cultures, they’re very different in some countries and if you have no clue what does are and you’re trying to do it in the US way, you could be wasting a lot of time.

Ben Forstag::

I know in Europe, in Spain for example. Including a photo on your resume is a customary practice.

Jenny Foss:

Right.

Ben Forstag::

Something that here in the states we would never do where we advise people against doing.

Jenny Foss:

Right, yeah.

Mac Prichard:

I think knowing whatever employer you may want to work with, what that organization’s practice is and customs are is always going to serve you well.

Jenny Foss:

We seem to have like an enclave of people from New Zealand and Singapore who have found JobJenny.com and they’ve hired us for a few projects. Even the little nuances like spelling differences or the size paper that they usually print out on. Those are things you have to factor in or you’re truly going to look like new guy over in the new market.

Mac Prichard:

Well, know your market. Always good advice. Ben, what were some of your reactions?

Jenny Foss:

I like to point about thinking about some of the other elements of your life if you’re going to live abroad, so thinking about healthcare and thinking about taxes. I actually had a little bit of a flashback nightmare about doing taxes when I was living in Spain which was awful because I had to file both in the United States and Spain. I was splitting revenue between the two countries and it was not a good experience. Depending on where you live, the healthcare issue can often kind of solve itself. I know when I lived in Spain, I got sick. I showed up at the hospital, the doctor saw me, gave me the medicine, and I was like waiting around waiting for like who is going to give me the bill for seeing the doctor. Finally, someone came and said, “What are you doing here?” I said, “I’m waiting to pay,” and they said, “You don’t have to pay here. Go out. Go home.”

That was a great experience. But thinking about those things, paying taxes, healthcare, food, availability of food or medicine if you’re going to certain parts of the world. Trying to get a holistic picture of what your life’s going to be like when you move abroad, that’s important.

Mac Prichard:

Well good. Well, thank you both and thank you, our listeners for joining us. If you like what you hear on our show, please take a moment and leave a rating and review at iTunes. This helps other discover the program and it helps us [serve 00:36:11] well better. One of the reviews we received recently is from RBT1979. This is the person’s iTunes handle and RBT1979 writes, “when I move to Portland, started looking for work. I had no idea what I was doing. Luckily, the Mac’s List blog was there to help me with advice. The podcast was [inaudible 00:36:32] into more debt interviewing an expert on that episode’s topic. The segments where they provide resources and answer question from a listener round things out nicely. Nice shout out to you Ben and Jenny.” Thank you RBT1979 and thanks to the scores of other listeners who left a review. Please take a moment to leave your own comments and ratings. Just go to Macslist.org/iTunes. Thank you again for listening. We’ll be back next week with the tools and tips you can use to find your dream job.