What You Need to Know About Job References, with Daisy Wright
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Your professional references can make or break your chances of getting a job. Select, nurture and prep your people to give you the best possible reference when they get the call from your potential new boss! Our guest on this episode of Find Your Dream Job gives you practical tips to strengthen your job references.
About Our Guest: Daisy Wright
Daisy Wright is chief encouragement officer at The Wright Career Solution, a certified career management coach and professional resume writer. She works with executives, managers and mid-career professionals to help them get hired faster.
Daisy is also the author of two books, “No Canadian Experience, Eh? A Career Success Guide for New Immigrants,” and “Tell Stories, Get Hired: Innovative Strategies to Land Your Next Job and Advance Your Career.”
Resources in this Episode:
- Check out Daisy’s “Tell Stories Get Hired: Innovative Strategies to Land Your Next Job and Advance Your Career”
- New Resource: Research confirms the old saying, “Ask and you shall receive.” Read If You Want Something, Ask For It
- Listener Question: A listener in Oregon asked for advice on relocating within the same state.
- Get another take on professional references in this early episode of Find Your Dream Job: “How to Manage the New World of Reference Checking”
- Practice answering interview “gotcha” questions with our free guide, 100 Behavioral Interview Questions.
Transcript
Find Your Dream Job, Episode 128: What You Need to Know About Job References, with Daisy Wright
Airdate: February 28, 2018
Mac Prichard:
Hi, this is Mac, of Mac’s List. Find Your Dream Job is presented by Mac’s List, an online community where you can find free resources for your job search, plus online courses and books that help you advance your career. My latest book is called Land Your Dream Job Anywhere. It’s a reference guide for your career that covers all aspects of the job search, including expert advice in every chapter. You can get the first chapter for free by visiting macslist.org/anywhere.
This is Find Your Dream Job, the podcast that helps you get hired, have the career you want, and make a difference in life. I’m Mac Prichard, your host and publisher of Mac’s List.
I’m joined by my co-hosts, Ben Forstag, Becky Thomas, and Jessica Black, from the Mac’s List team.
This week we’re talking about what you need to know about job references.
Many job seekers treat references as an afterthought. That’s a big mistake, says Daisy Wright, this week’s guest expert. She says research shows that 80% of employers check references. So you need to invest time with your references before you give their names to a hiring manager. Daisy and I talk later in the show.
Are you afraid to ask others to help you in your job search? Ben has found an article from the Stanford Business School that says most of us think others will say no when we ask for help. In fact, the opposite is true. Ben tells us more in a moment.
You want to move to a new city in your home state. But you get no response to
your applications. What you can you do to change this? That’s our question of the week. Becky shares her answer shortly.
As always, let’s first check in with the Mac’s List team.
Let’s turn to Ben, who is out there every week poking around the Internet looking for books, tools, and websites you can use in your job search and your career. Ben, what have you uncovered for our listeners this week?
Ben Forstag:
This week, since we’re talking about references, which is all about other people helping you out by speaking on your behalf, I thought I’d share this really interesting article that I found. It’s called If You Want Something, Ask For It.
Now, before I start, Mac, do you know what my favorite resource, online journal, I use to mine for these resources is?
Mac Prichard:
Well I thought it was the Harvard Business Review, but I think you’re about to change songs.
Ben Forstag:
It was, yes. I’m betraying your alma mater by going for a…I don’t know, a better?… a different business school. This is the Stanford Business Review.
Mac Prichard:
I think I’ve heard of it.
Ben Forstag:
Yeah, that school over there.
This article comes from the Stanford Graduate Business school and it reaffirms a truism that I think we all know, but we sometimes are afraid to accept. That if you want something you should ask for it.
We’ve talked about this a lot on the podcast in the past: that you need help from others if you really want to maximize your job search. You’ve got to get out there, you’ve got to talk to people, you have to ask for really targeted assistance. This is how you find out about the opportunities that never get advertised on job boards or anywhere else.
But we also know that it can be really difficult to do this. Asking for help, or really, asking for anything, can feel awkward. Especially when you’re talking about a job search, where a lot of people who are job seekers feel like they have nothing to offer back to people. It feels like they’re at the beggar’s table, asking someone for something and making an imposition on them.
But here’s the good news: asking actually works. Our fears about imposing on others, or that the other person will say “no”, are vastly overblown in our head.
This article really discusses a series of studies that reveal that people tend to grossly underestimate how much others are likely to agree to requests for assistance. It’s really interesting stuff.
They talk about one study where they sent out a bunch of people on campus, I assume this was Stanford’s campus. They walked up to complete strangers and asked, “Hey, can I borrow your cell phone? I need to make a call to my mom. I’m lost.” Or call a friend. Before they had the people do this, they asked, “What percentage of people do you think are going to say yes to this request?” I think it was something like 18 percent. People said, “Oh yeah, 18 percent of people are going to say yes to it.” It ended up being around 80 percent of people, when asked for help, gave the help to the people. It was really cool stuff.
They have a bunch of other surveys that all reaffirm this point, which is that the voice in our heads that say, “No, they won’t help me,”…we exaggerate that and people are really much more willing to help.
Mac Prichard:
How does this affect job seekers, Ben? What lessons are you drawing from this?
Ben Forstag:
Good question, Mac.
In a couple ways:
First, as I mentioned earlier, I think these findings should allay some of the fears people have about networking and asking others for help in their job search. When I tell people that they need to get out there and network or to do informational interviews, so many people tell me something like, “Why would anyone be willing to meet me? I’ve got nothing to offer.”
But the truth is, professionals are much more willing than you’d imagine to help out job seekers. You’ve got to have the right approach, of course, but you’d be surprised by how much people will do for you if you just ask the right question and be direct about it.
The second point here is, I think you can take this principle and apply it to other aspects of your work lives, whether we’re talking about asking for more money, or seeking help from your boss or a co-worker, or anything else. So many times we build up these narratives in our head about, “I can’t ask for it because they’re going to say no, or I’ll be embarrassed”, but the truth of the matter is, if you do ask, good things happen from that. It’s not a guarantee, but asking gets results.
Mac Prichard:
Yeah, you’ll never get “No” unless you ask the question, will you?
Ben Forstag:
That’s right.
Mac Prichard:
This is a lesson I keep learning myself personally. Just the other day, I sent off a request for a meeting with a sales prospect for Prichard’s Communications, my other firm, and I thought, “Oh, I probably won’t hear from that person for a week or more.” Within an hour, not only did they respond, but they sent a Google invite scheduling a meeting. Often, you just have to ask.
Ben Forstag:
Yeah, and the other way to think about this is, you’re always going to get “no” if you don’t ask. No is the default. If you ask, you’re automatically improving your chances.
The other study that they came out here with was that, direct asks, for assistance, were almost always better received than indirect. If you were being really coy and not saying directly what you wanted, people are less likely to help you than if you just, were very clear and said, “I need this help, would you help me?” The response rates on that direct ask were astronomical.
Jessica Black:
Absolutely. I think it goes back to what we always say here, people want to help. Reach out to your networks and make it easy for them to help you. Being direct is always good, and knowing what you’re asking for and not being shy. Go for it.
Ben Forstag:
Guys, I need to borrow someone’s cell phone.
Jessica Black:
You got it.
Becky Thomas:
Here you go.
Mac Prichard:
Wait, we’re recording.
Well, great research, and great advice, Jessica. Thank you, Ben. If you’ve got a suggestion for Ben, he would love to hear from you, please write him. We’d love to share your idea on the show. His address is info@macslist.org.
Now let’s turn to you, our listeners, and Becky is here to answer one of your questions. Becky, what’s in the mailbag this week?
Becky Thomas:
Well, Mac, this week’s question came in via email from a listener located in Bend, Oregon. They asked to remain anonymous, so I’ll just read their email. They wrote:
“My question is on the topic of relocation. I would like to move to a place where pay is more in line with the cost of housing, so I’ve applied for a lot of jobs in different areas in Oregon, focusing on the Willamette Valley. I’ve had no response in about a year, yet I applied for a job 4,000 miles away and at least got a phone interview. What does it take?”
Good question. I think that a lot of folks who are looking to move to a new place are like, “Oh, I’m moving to a new state, I’m moving across the country”, something like that. Where they feel like it’s such a long distance and that’s why they’re having trouble getting those leads and getting those interviews and things moving forward in their job search, but this person is like, “Well I’m only a few hours away from the place I want to live. Why is this not working?” That’s not as much of a barrier as the distance between where you’re living and where you want to move. I think that it’s a good question, it’s a little bit tricky, but I think that there’s a big opportunity with living sort of close to where you want to move.
I think the first thing I would advise this person to do is really do some studying about the job market in the areas and the cities you’re targeting. You might imagine that you know what things are like in Willamette Valley because you’re only a few hours away from there right now, but just really dig in and do some study and research about the job market. Specifically figure out, are your skills, expertise, and particular job title in demand in those areas? Also, are there major industries, and employers, and organizations that are located in those areas where you want to live? Find out what’s interesting to you, and what you might be qualified to do, and learn everything you can about those employers and those industries.
Once you’ve done that, you have a huge opportunity in living close to the place you want to move. Take advantage of it. Since you’ve done all this research about these organizations you want to target, start reaching out to those folks. Reaching out to professional organizations. When you’re reaching out, ask to meet, ask for an informational interview. Find out if there are networking events going on in those areas where you want to move. Take some time off from your day job, drive over to the areas that you want to live, and spend a couple of weekdays… You know, if it is the Willamette Valley, go over there and do some face-to-face networking, have some meetings, and build some face-to-face personal connections. Once you start doing that, you’re going to find opportunities opening up a lot easier. This will really build on itself if you keep working at it.
I think that the approach of just sending applications is not really doing you any good that you’re so close to that area where you want to move. Use that physical proximity to your advantage, and get over there and start making yourself known in that area. That’s my advice, you guys have any other thoughts on that?
Jessica Black:
That was excellent. I don’t have anything else to add. I think that the focus on those in-person connections, it’s the same as if we were going to give advice to someone who was looking to relocate from across the country. We would give them that same advice: building those connections, whether it is LinkedIn, if they are four thousand miles away, but reaching out to the organizations that they want to work for or that they feel they have a good opportunity to be connected with. Start making those actual in-person and online, all of those connections with people in the industries already in that location, I think is spot on.
Mac Prichard:
I second Jessica’s endorsement, I think you’ve really hit the nail on the head here, Becky, with your advice about taking advantage of that asset that you have of physical proximity. It’s a huge advantage and I hope she does tap into that.
Becky Thomas:
Yeah, great.
Mac Prichard:
Great, well thank you, Becky. Thank you, to our listener in Bend, Oregon, and I think we are able to send her a book as well. We have a postal address?
Becky Thomas:
Yep, I’ll send a book over.
Mac Prichard:
Terrific.
If you’ve got a question for Becky, email her. Her address is: info@macslist.org. You can also call our listener line; that number is area-code 716-JOB-TALK, or post a question on our Facebook page.
If we use your question on the show, we’ll send you a copy of Land Your Dream Job Anywhere.
We’ll be back in just a moment. When we return, I’ll talk with this week’s guest expert, Daisy Wright, about what you need to know about job references.
Have you ever been asked a question like this in a job interview? “Tell me about a time when you didn’t agree with your boss.” That’s a tough one, right? What would you say?
This is what hiring managers call a behavioral interview question. And it’s a common tactic. Employers use this kind of question to explore your fit for a job based on your past experience. It can also be an easy question to answer if you have the right strategy.
I share my own tips for how to answer these “gotcha” questions in my new guide, 100 Behavioral Interview Questions. This free resource teaches you a simple four-step process for expertly answering the most common behavioral questions.
To get your copy, visit macslist.org/questions.
Now, let’s continue with our show.
Now let’s turn to this week’s guest expert, Daisy Wright.
Daisy Wright is chief encouragement officer at The Wright Career Solution. She’s also a certified career management coach and a professional resume writer.
She works with executives, managers and mid-career professionals to help them get hired faster.
Daisy is also the author of two books: No Canadian Experience, Eh? A Career Success Guide for New Immigrants and Tell Stories, Get Hired: Innovative Strategies to Land Your Next Job and Advance Your Career.
She joins us today from Brampton in Ontario, Canada.
Daisy, thanks for being on the show.
Daisy Wright:
Well, thank you so much for having me.
Mac Prichard:
Well, it’s a pleasure to have you here. Our topic this week is references. Daisy, you and I were chatting the other week, and you were telling me that many people, when they find a listing for a job or there’s an offer on the table, they treat references sometimes as an afterthought. Why is that a mistake?
Daisy Wright:
It’s a mistake because one, they might have a good resume that gave them the interview, then they may leave that interview and start to realize that, “Wow, it’s time for me to call my references.” What happens in such a case is that they do not give the reference advance notice. Sometimes they may have worked with the person for years, and the person does not readily remember who he or she is. Or sometimes you want to give your references an idea of what the new job entails so that they can steer the conversation towards that particular job, to talk about your skills and your experience based on what the job is asking for.
The mistake they actually make is to not give their references advance notice.
Mac Prichard:
You really need to put time into preparation with your references, just as you might in preparing a cover letter or getting ready for an interview, don’t you?
Daisy Wright:
Absolutely. In fact I would even go ahead and say that they should be preparing the references even before they start sending out a cover letter and a resume. At the end of the day, the references will help determine whether or not you get that job.
Mac Prichard:
Let’s step back and think about those references. Let’s talk for a moment about the strategy that people should follow when they’re thinking about references. Who do you recommend people choose?
Daisy Wright:
It’s always good to choose people who they’ve worked with directly. Their boss, their supervisor, someone in a leadership role. People who are able to attest to their accomplishments and their capabilities. One of the things I advise my clients is to avoid people who they’re not sure will speak well on their behalf. I had a particular client who ended up with a reference like that, the person told him she was going to speak well on his behalf and it ended up being that she did not. The reason was, she didn’t want him to leave the company. He had faith in her saying, “I will speak well on your behalf.” But then she went behind his back and didn’t do that.
You have to make sure that you know the person will speak well on your behalf. The fact that he or she may have been your supervisor doesn’t necessarily mean they carry over into being a good reference.
Mac Prichard:
How do you recommend people do that? They’re considering asking someone to serve as a reference, they’re uncertain, maybe about the quality of the reference, what’s the best way to approach a person if you have that kind of doubt in your mind?
Daisy Wright:
Okay, so the first thing I would say is to select a minimum of three people that you want to act as references for you. Meet with them, have coffee, or have a telephone conversation with them to give them an idea of where you are at now. As I said earlier, you may have worked with them for a few years prior. Give them an idea of where you are now and what your career goal is. Give them an update on what new skills you have aquired. Provide them with a copy of your resume, and of course, give them a copy of the job posting as well.
Mac Prichard:
Are there people that you shouldn’t ask to be references, Daisy? Obviously, we’ve talked about someone you might have some concerns about, but you sit down, you have this conversation, you clear the matter up. But are there people who should never be on your reference list?
Daisy Wright:
One of the things they have said that people should not have on their references would be relatives or close friends. That goes without saying because they will say the best thing about you, even if they know that you have some hang-ups. That’s one.
Two, again, people you may have had conflicts with in the organization. That person might not be a good reference for you to use.
I think those would be the people that you would not want to ask to act as a reference for you.
Mac Prichard:
Okay, well I want to talk in a moment about how to deal with bad references because sometimes we’re in a position that doesn’t work out and we know that if an employer calls the manager that we worked for, they may hear some unflattering things. Before we take that up, how do you recommend people work with their references during a search? Your examples said sharing a job posting, but for positions you’ve applied for with your references, does it make sense, Daisy depending on jobs, to have different numbers of references or should you always work with the same three people?
Daisy Wright:
Well, if you only have three people, I guess you can at least start with them. If you have more people and you feel really confident that they can speak really well on your behalf, then that’s great. Probably depending on the industry, so if it’s finance, for example, and you have one particular reference who works in finance, then it makes sense to use that particular individual.
I am not sure if there is really a limit on how many people you should have but my suggestion is to have at least three individuals who can really attest to your capabilities.
Mac Prichard:
How do you recommend people stay in touch with their references because a typical search, depending on where you are in your career and the kinds of positions you’re pursuing, could take three, six, even twelve months?
Daisy Wright:
Well, you should constantly be building and maintaining your relationships with people in your network. Some candidates, or some people, they may have a reference or they may have someone in their network, but they only go to that individual when they’re looking for something and that’s not good. You have to nurture the relationships so that whenever you are in a position to need someone for a reference, then it’s easy for them. You’re on their radar and it’s easy for them to remember who you are.
That’s one of the mistakes, and I should have said that earlier, that’s one of the mistakes that job seekers make. They forget who their references are, they forget the people who are very important in their network until they are in need. I think it was Harvard Mckay, who said, something like you should keep in touch with people before the well runs dry, pretty much.
Mac Prichard:
Yeah, I think maintaining those ties, not only when you’re doing a search, but between searches is just vital.
Daisy Wright:
It’s very important because you don’t want… People don’t like to feel used, and if you’re only contacting them when you are in need of assistance, then that doesn’t look good on you, personally or professionally.
Mac Prichard:
Yeah, excellent point. Now let’s talk about what happens when you’ve done all the steps that you’ve outlined, Daisy. You’ve stayed in touch with your references, you’ve applied for a position, you’ve gotten in touch with people and let them know what the job is, and that they could get a call. When you know that call is going to come, what do you recommend candidates do?
Daisy Wright:
Could you repeat that? When you know the call is going to come to who? To the candidate? Or to the referee?
Mac Prichard:
When you know the employer is going to contact the referee, and you’ve met with the hiring manager, and the hiring manager says, “Please share your references.” You turn over the list of three or more names, and the manager tells you she’s going to start making phone calls that day. What should the candidate do next?
Daisy Wright:
Well, I would imagine that the candidate would advise those references that they’re going for the interview and they should be expecting the call. They would have shared the job posting with them as well the resume, they would have helped them and guided them on, “What are some of the potential questions that might be asked?”, or they may say after the interview, “You know what, they were focusing a lot on my ability to lead a team. Could you speak to that particular competent, my leadership skills?”
Yes, so it’s just a matter of giving the referee enough time, enough warning that, you know, “I’m in an active job search, some people might be calling, so please be aware that people will be calling you. Here is a copy of my resume and here are some topics that I’d want you to address.” Just to make sure that everyone is one the same page.
Mac Prichard:
Is it appropriate for job candidates to check back with their referees to see if they indeed got a call from the manager and what the manager and referee might have talked about?
Daisy Wright:
Absolutely, absolutely. It’s always good to check back with the person to find out what was said, were there questions that they were not sure how to answer. Definitely, because that will give the candidate an idea of whether or not they’re going to be called back.
Mac Prichard:
Let’s talk about negative references, Daisy. You’re a candidate for a job, you had a mixed experience at a previous position. You know the hiring manager is going to call that past employer and may hear some negative things about you. How do you recommend candidates handle that?
Daisy Wright:
What I would do is, because some employers insist that the candidate give them a name of their direct report. Sometimes that’s not always possible, because there’s been conflicts or things like that. There are two ways they can handle that particular question.
First, they can say, “I’m not sure what Mary’s going to say. We had an issue at one point, but I realized that I was in the wrong and I apologized and I ended up growing out of that experience.” Or he could say something to the effect of, “I’m not sure what George of that company would say about me at this point. He was not happy when I resigned. After three years in that department, I was bypassed for a promotion and was asked to train the new hire. I decided it was time to start exploring other opportunities and so I left the position for a different company. That position represented not only a hike in salary but the responsibilities were exactly what I was looking for. As you can see, I excelled in that role and was promoted within twelve months of joining the company.”
What you would actually be saying is, “Yes, the relationship kind of soured at some point but I was very professional in terms of voicing my displeasure. But I did not hesitate to train the new hire and after that, I decided to explore new opportunities elsewhere.”
Mac Prichard:
Acknowledge there was an issue, talk about what happened next, and what you went on to do, and touch on the accomplishments you got done at that later opportunity.
Daisy Wright:
Right, because it’s important to be authentic and transparent and discuss the situation as candidly as possible. The only piece I would add is that regardless of what happened, never ever bad mouth the company, nor the former boss, or the former supervisor.
Mac Prichard:
I’ve heard so many employers make that same point that you’re making, Daisy. That they’re turned off when they hear the candidate for the job say something negative about a past employer.
Daisy Wright:
Exactly, because they’re thinking if you’re saying that to us now, and we hire you, when you’re leaving then you might be saying the same things about us. It just doesn’t come off as being professional, like a sour grapes issue.
Mac Prichard:
Absolutely, and I know it can be difficult sometimes because sometimes people are mistreated in the workplace and they’ve suffered, but it is, as you say, the best policy is just to keep it to yourself.
Daisy Wright:
Yes.
Mac Prichard:
Well terrific. Daisy, tell us, what’s coming up next for you?
Daisy Wright:
I will be writing the third edition of No Canadian Experience. It’s a very popular book, and because we have lots of new commerce who are coming to Canada and benefiting from the book, that will be my next project, for 2018. To come up with the third edition.
Mac Prichard:
Well, congratulations. I know people can learn more about you and your practice by visiting thewrightcareer.com. Daisy, thanks for being on the show today.
Daisy Wright:
Thank you so very much. I appreciate it and best of luck for all of 2018.
Mac Prichard:
Great, thank you, Daisy.
We’re back in the Mac’s List studio. What were some key takeaways from my conversation with Daisy? What stood out to you all?
Jessica Black:
Well, one thing that stood out for me is not something that I necessarily took for a piece of advice, but I think is a really important takeaway for people, is to continue your relationships with your network always, consistently, and constantly. That way you’re not in a scramble mode when you do need to have those refresher conversations, but it is a strong relationship all the time. That way you can reach out to anyone who is your reference at anytime, and they’ll know exactly what’s been going on with you and they’ll know your accomplishments, and they’ll know that you do have that strong relationship and you’re not just using them for a positive reference.
Mac Prichard:
Yeah, I think that relationship building is vital and I don’t think your referee is not going to be able to serve you as well if the first they know is they’re being asked for an opinion is to get a call from an employer.
Jessica Black:
Absolutely. Yeah.
Becky Thomas:
I think that’s not acceptable.
Jessica Black:
Yeah.
Becky Thomas:
If I were someone’s reference and I got a call out of the blue and nobody told me about it, I would be like, “Oh, I did not know this call was coming.” Right? You’re putting your person who’s supposed to be one of the best people who can talk about your work in a really uncomfortable position. That whole, prep your references, talk to them about the job you’re interviewing for, and some of the things that you’re telling the employer so that they can reiterate and support what you’re saying. It’d be so great.
Jessica Black:
Yeah, huge. But also, not having that call come out of the blue to your reference as well. So even if you’re prepping your reference, which is important to what you’re saying, but it’s not just a, “Hey, I haven’t talked to you in five years, but I have this interview next week.” Or, “Hey, heads up, you might be getting a call.” It’s having those consistent check-ins every once in a while, so that it is a strong relationship, and it’s not just, “Oh, I know you’ll give me this really positive reference because we worked together eleven years ago or whatever.”
Becky Thomas:
Yeah.
Ben Forstag:
We talk a lot about customizing your resume around the job, like the specific things that the employer is looking for. I think, speaking to Jessica and Becky’s point, you also want to customize your references around what the employer is looking for as well.
Jessica Black:
Yeah, definitely.
Ben Forstag:
Part of that prepping your references isn’t just saying, “Hey, a call might be coming soon,” but saying, “They were particularly interested in that project we did two years ago and maybe you could talk a little bit more about what I did there.” I know I’ve done this in the past, where I know that reference calls were being made, telling my references like, “Oh, this seemed to be a particular need that they have over there. If you could talk about my role as a manager, I appreciate it.” You can’t obviously control what the reference is going to say on the phone, but you can do your best to tell them what you think the priority areas are. The more you can articulate it, the more preparation you’ve done, I think the better position you’re in.
Jessica Black:
Yeah, that’s great advice.
Mac Prichard:
We didn’t talk about this, Daisy and I, but one thing I’ve seen some referees do when I’ve called people for references, they not only tell you about their experience with the candidate, but they ask you about your concerns with the candidate.
Jessica Black:
So interesting.
Mac Prichard:
Yeah, and they do that because it gives them an opportunity, just as this can happen when you’re a job candidate in an interview, asking about an employer’s concerns, to talk about experiences that might not otherwise come up, not knowing what those concerns might be that an employer has about that particular candidate.
Jessica Black:
That’s good to know.
Mac Prichard:
It is. The other thing that happens, if a candidate checks back with the referee, they get insights into what the employer’s concerns are about their prospects.
Jessica Black:
Yeah. I think that’s brilliant.
Ben Forstag:
I think one thing to point out here is that it’s also a little bit like the Wild West, in terms of what employers do with references, because I’ve had employers call me up and say, “Can you chat for five or ten minutes about this person?” I’ve also had employers send me an automated evaluation form that have, “Rate this person one to ten,” and sometimes it’s weird questions like, “Would you use this person on an expedition to the Himalayas?” I’m not even joking, that was a question once. The answer was “No, they’re not a sherpa, why would I even?”
I think all you can do is prep for the norm, which I think is still the phone call, I think. But know that those things are changing.
Mac Prichard:
Well, we did have a guest earlier in the show, Ray Bixler, who talked about automated reference checks, and it is a practice for many large employers who have big volumes of applications to go through. But I agree, Ben, I think the norm for most employers, particularly small organizations, are telephone calls.
Jessica Black:
Do you think that it is pretty standard for every employer to call the references that they’re given? Because I don’t know how it is now, but I know several years ago, it was sort of hit or miss whether people were or were not actually going to call references.
Mac Prichard:
In preparing for this, I found some research, and I think Daisy shared it as well on her blog, that about eighty percent of employers do check references.
Jessica Black:
I think it’s valuable information and people should. I just, I know I’ve had experiences, again, years ago where I provided references and prepped my references that they were going to get a call, and they never got calls. I don’t know if that was just sort of antiquated and people are more on the ball now and it’s more standard. I just didn’t know if you had any feedback or information about that.
Ben Forstag:
I mean, eighty percent seems like a big number, but I’m actually surprised it’s not a hundred percent. I would think this is something that everyone would do.
Jessica Black:
I think it should be standard.
Ben Forstag:
Yeah, but I guess at least twenty percent of employers don’t.
Jessica Black:
It’s interesting.
Mac Prichard:
I think it does happen.
Thanks everybody, for that feedback, and thank you, Daisy, for joining us as a guest this week, and thank you, our listeners, for downloading today’s episode of Find Your Dream Job.
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