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In Person, Hybrid, and Remote: What Works for You? with Liz Bronson

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Post-Covid, the workplace has changed from all remote to a mashup of many styles. If you are a job seeker trying to figure out what type of environment suits you, Find Your Dream Job guest Liz Bronson says to begin by clarifying what your life requires. Is flexibility your top priority? Or do you need community more? Do you want a mix of community and the ability to flex your schedule? Once you know what you need, read the job posting carefully, ask pertinent questions, and find the information you need to make the best decision for your life and circumstances. 

About Our Guest:

Liz Bronson is an HR leader with more than two decades of experience. Liz also co-hosts the excellent podcast, Real Job Talk.

Resources in This Episode:

Transcript

Find Your Dream Job, Episode 487:

In Person, Hybrid, and Remote: What Works for You? with Liz Bronson

Airdate: February 5, 2025

Mac Prichard:

This is Find Your Dream Job, the podcast that helps you get hired, have the career you want, and make a difference in life.

I’m your host, Mac Prichard. I’m also the founder of Mac’s List. It’s a job board in the Pacific Northwest that helps you find a fulfilling career.

Every Wednesday, I talk to a different expert about the tools you need to get the work you want.

Remote and hybrid workplaces were almost unknown until the COVID-19 pandemic.

Four years later, working from home all the time or several days a week has become common.

Which model is best for you and how do you find an employer that offers it?

Liz Bronson is here to talk about in-person, hybrid, and remote: what works for you?

She’s an HR leader with more than two decades of experience.

Liz also co-hosts the excellent podcast, Real Job Talk.

She joins us from Austin, Texas.

Well, let’s start with definitions, Liz. How are in-person jobs, hybrid jobs, and remote jobs different from each other? How do you define those three?

Liz Bronson:

Mac, I’m going to give you my definition, and I would say, other companies or other people may define things differently. What’s happening right now in our world is that so many different places are figuring out what it means for them, so these things are evolving, but for me, the “Liz Version” is that in-person is in the office at least four days a week, with set hours and set expectations. You will be at your desk, and we see a lot of big companies saying, “Five days a week in the office starting on this day.” We’re seeing a lot of companies that were maybe more flexible go back to being in person.

Hybrid is a mix of in-person and remote, so if someone says, “I’m hybrid,” that means that they go into the office sometimes and they work from home sometimes. There’s a flexibility, and again, every company defines hybrid differently and I see HR leaders that I talk to, all figuring this out for their company and their workplace. For some companies, it can be a certain number of badge in’s a week, or per week, some may be set days like, “Must be in the office Tuesdays and Thursdays.” Then there are other days for remote and some roles can be expected to have more face time and others less. Hybrid is kind of all over the place.

With remote jobs, or remote workplaces, either there’s no office available or no office for the majority of the team, so everyone works from home. There are no set expectations for in the office for the majority of the people who work there. All processes at a remote company have to be able to be done from not an office.

That is, to me, what in-person, hybrid, and remote means.

Mac Prichard:

We’re recording this in the fall of 2024; it’s been four years since the COVID-19 pandemic. Liz, what are you seeing now and what does your crystal ball tell you about employers and hybrid and remote jobs? Are employers feeling fewer hybrid and remote jobs today and will they in the future? What do you think?

Liz Bronson:

It’s been fascinating, Mac. A lot of roles seem to be moving back to in-person. There’s this feeling of lack of distrust out there, where places want to be in the office, or frankly, if you look for the money, it’s, “We have this lease and no one’s using it, so we’re going to fill these desks.” A number of jobs that were remote a year or two ago are now in-person. It seems that the shift is going back to the office.

That being said, some companies are, “We are remote and we will be remote” and they’re using that as a differentiator to attract talent. I think there’s movement on both sides of the spectrum.

Mac Prichard:

Why do you think employers are requiring workers to come back four, even five days a week? Is this about real estate, Liz? Is it because employers are locked into a lease or own an enormous building, or is there something else going on?

Liz Bronson:

I think there’s a lot going on. Part of it is that piece of empty real estate, and expensive leases and all of those things. Some of it is people want to see their team around them, some of it is a lack of trust if I’m being honest. Some of it is, “I feel that we collaborate better.” That impromptu whiteboard session or water cooler conversation is harder remote and has to be done really mindfully, and so, if people are around you, you can just call them into your office.

I think there’s just a huge number of different factors and every company and every boss is different.

Mac Prichard:

You mentioned that some employers have embraced remote work and they’re reaching out and hiring people, no matter where they might live. Why are some employers doing this? Are they seeing that it brings them competitive advantages by hiring and having a remote workforce?

Liz Bronson:

Some of those managers just want to be remote themselves. There’s a huge advantage to being remote, especially if you’re a caregiver or if you’re a true introvert. There are certain people who don’t want to go in themselves and therefore are building the office environment that they want.

Also, some people are just more talented remote workers than others. There are other people that say, “There is talent everywhere. Why would I limit myself to talent that can get here in a half hour or less? I’m not going to limit my talent pool.” Or, “I happen to live in a high-cost location. I want to be able to hire people in lower-cost locations, and I can only do that if I build a remote first workplace.” Or even, “I don’t want to pay for office space and the maintenance of that. I’d rather take the whole company on a retreat once or twice a year and I could actually save money.”

Again, there’s motivation all over the place with this, there’s not one clear answer.

Mac Prichard:

You talked about how some employers are requiring people to come back four or five days a week, but do you think that we’ll ever go back to the way that it was in 2019, before COVID-19, when hybrid and remote were rare, but now a significant portion of the workforce is filling one of those kinds of jobs. Are we going to go back to pre-pandemic days, Liz? What does your crystal ball tell you?

Liz Bronson:

I can’t imagine. I think employers who do that are going to receive a huge amount of backlash. I’m seeing that with companies like Amazon and Dell that have done the 5-day-a-week declaration.

People have moved. People want the flexibility. We learned so much during the pandemic about what people were juggling outside of their office and, big news flash, school gets out at 3:30, and people are constantly looking for after-school solutions. And it’s hard, and schools also, by the way, ask you to come in and watch things in the middle of the day, and to block your calendar and go for 45 minutes is not a big deal, to come in and out of the office is.

I feel that caregivers are going to insist on at least a flexibility option, to care for the elderly or children, and so, companies need to understand that if they want to maintain a diverse workplace.

Mac Prichard:

We’re going to talk in a moment about how to figure out which of these three options is best for you, but, Liz, for those listeners who know the answer, they want a remote job, they want a hybrid job, or maybe they have one and they’re about to get a return to the office order, where do you recommend listeners look to find these positions? Hybrid or remote.

Liz Bronson:

Well, they’re everywhere we’re looking for jobs. There are also remote first job boards that you can look at. The thing to be really careful of is you look at what the listing says because you’ll see something that says, “Hybrid” or “Remote,” and then you see in there, “Needs to be in New York City or have access to the New York City office.”

You have to be more savvy than two years ago, when everything was remote, and it was kind of a “Nice-to-have” if the person could come into the office space and now it’s different, you’re going to lose out on roles where you can’t come into the office if there is an office option.

They may say that they’re open to remote, but prefer local. It’s something to keep in mind, but it’s really all in the job description. There are remote-only job boards, and I would say if you’re insistent on remote, start there.

Mac Prichard:

Well, let’s take a break, Liz, and when we come back, let’s talk about your advice for figuring out which of these three options is best for you in your next job search and in your career.

Stay with us.

When we return, Liz Bronson will continue to share her advice on in-person, hybrid, and remote; what works best for you.

We’re back in the Mac’s List studio. I’m talking with Liz Bronson.

She’s an HR leader with more than two decades of experience.

Liz also co-hosts the excellent podcast, Real Job Talk.

She joins us from Austin, Texas.

Now, Liz, before the break, we were talking about in-person, hybrid, and remote work and we talked about why it happened, what the state of the workforce is today, and how to find, especially, hybrid and remote jobs.

Let’s talk about how to figure out which of these three options is best for you as a job seeker.

Let’s start with why people want hybrid and remote jobs. Let’s start with job seekers. What are they looking for when they’re looking at those two options, Liz?

Liz Bronson:

Number one: flexibility. Number two: time.

It’s the flexibility to run to the doctor or run someone that you’re caring for to the doctor or run over to the school or run to the grocery store and get some milk. It’s also time. Sitting on the highway for 45 minutes each way is a lot of time that can be spent doing other things. Now, if you have a great podcast, like yours, to listen to, it’s a lot easier, but it’s about those two things.

It’s about the need to maximize your work time and another factor that comes into it is in certain jobs you need a lot of concentration, and if people are dropping by your cube or dropping by your office or calling you into things, you get distracted really easily. There are certain roles that lack the focus time that they get in the silence of their homes.

Mac Prichard:

Are there downsides to hybrid or remote jobs? For example, I’m sure you’ve heard that if you’re not in front of the boss five days a week, it might hurt your chances for promotion or even affect your career.

Liz Bronson:

I think that can definitely happen in roles where other people are in person and you’re not. For sure. I also think that people can get really lonely in a remote or hybrid situation. There is also, it’s harder to collaborate remotely. You have to be really intentional on your collaboration and reach out to people and so, especially for more junior folks that, when you’re sitting in the big cubicles, you learn by osmosis, kind of thing, and you overhear things and you get called and, “Hey, Mac, come over and observe this.” That kind of thing.

It happens much less frequently remotely and it has to be really woven into the culture. Which is an artful thing to do, especially when you’ve got people across time zones and things, and so learning opportunities can be tougher in a remote or hybrid situation.

Mac Prichard:

You’re an HR expert; what have you seen in the last four years, Liz, that workers can do to deal with those issues, to be good at collaboration, avoid loneliness, and make sure that supervisors know what they’re accomplishing?

Liz Bronson:

I think it’s mindfulness on all sides, Mac. It’s about the manager being really aware and making sure that that remote junior person on your team is invited to the meeting that maybe they’re not going to contribute to but they can observe. It’s about building in time for reflection, for brainstorming, it’s bringing together people, it’s learning to use – there’s so many tools, like Miro, and on Zoom there’s a whiteboard, and all of those things.

Recreating the whiteboard session and not losing it because you’re remote. It’s about more junior folks asking, “Can I sit in on that meeting? Can I please be included in that?” Even cross-functionally, “I’m curious about your organization, can I sit in on one of your team meetings and learn more.”

It’s really the person on the team who is able to ask others for help and for opportunity gets it more than the person who sits silently and that’s really important to be able to do. It’s a huge skill now to ask someone for their time and to come prepared with questions and learning and drive your own learning.

Kat and I say on “Real Job Talk” all the time, you are the CEO of your career, and that’s even more obvious in a remote-first world.

Mac Prichard:

Be mindful, learn new software that remote or hybrid workers might use, be curious. Are there other skills that you’ve seen successful hybrid and remote workers master in order to thrive in this environment?

Liz Bronson:

In the world of work today, flexibility and adaptability are the number one skills, and so that’s always something to keep in mind, but it’s the ability to ask for help. So many times, you’ll see someone on that hamster wheel, spinning and spinning and spinning unnecessarily because they’re stuck. Whereas in the olden days, they would have looked over the cubicle and asked for help, but it feels more intrusive to go into someone’s world and say, “Can I have some of your time?” when you don’t know what they’re doing, but you can’t be afraid of that. You have to get what you need to get your job done and be successful.

You have to ask questions, you have to get clarification, and you’ve got to own your projects but also ask for help and not get stuck and miss deliverables on what you need to do.

Mac Prichard:

Well, let’s talk about your tips for figuring out which of these options are best for you, in-person, hybrid, or remote. One of your first pieces of advice is something you’ve already touched on, which is: understand what your life can bear and what kind of flexibility you need. You mentioned flexibility a moment ago. Why is it important to do this, Liz?

Liz Bronson:

Because if it doesn’t work for your life, it’s not going to work for you. That is my number one piece of advice. Be really honest with what your must-have list is for whatever you’re looking for, and stick to that. If your life can’t bear you being on the road for more than 40 minutes a day, 20 minutes each way, do not take a job an hour away. Your life can’t bear it and you won’t be successful no matter how perfect the job is when you get there.

That’s number one, and really number one, mic drop, but if there’s a number two, it’s finding out from the company what in-person, remote, or hybrid means to them. So does it mean that I have to go in Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday? Is there flexibility? Who’s in this office? Is it another big one?

Mac, if I’m going into an office every day and driving and parking and packing a lunch and I’m the only one from my team there, so I’m going into my cubicle and putting on my headphones and I’m on Zoom calls all day, I am not a happy camper, but if I go in and my whole team is there and my boss is there and I’m collaborating and brainstorming and learning, I am a happy camper. Know what it means to have that in-office experience.

Mac Prichard:

How do you find that out? You mentioned in the first segment, look at the job posting, see what remote means, but if there’s some uncertainty or ambiguity about it, how do you get clear that you’re not going to be the only one that’s going to be coming in 5 days a week or that hybrid actually means two or three days a week and remote is 100% at home? What have you seen work for applicants who are trying to answer those questions?

Liz Bronson:

Ask. Ask, “What does a day in the life of this role look like?” I always recommend that if you will have peers doing the same job, asking to talk to them, if not during the interview process, which makes sense, definitely do it after you have an offer, so that you can hear what it’s like. “Who’s in the office? Who’s also there?” You’re going to know if the boss is in the office because you’re going to know that from their profile, et cetera, but ask the questions.

Ask what a week looks like, what does hybrid mean for XYZ company, what are the expectations of me around remote versus in-person. These are legit questions that every candidate should ask.

Mac Prichard:

How do you research those questions before you apply? You’ve got the posting, it may not say anything. What kind of tips do you encourage people to follow in order to figure that out before you invest time in a cover letter, a resume, and other application materials?

Liz Bronson:

That’s harder to do. You don’t always know if it’s not there, so definitely make sure your strategy is to have it as part of the interview process and to know what your life can bear. It all gets back to that.

Mac Prichard:

Well, you’ve talked about understanding the importance of knowing what your life can bear, consider flexibility, look at office norms and culture, and be clear about who’s actually coming in and who’s not. Any other tips for understanding which of these three roles might be best for you?

Liz Bronson:

Think of what’s worked for you before. Do you like being remote? Again, what works for your life, but do you like the buzz of the office? If the answer to that is yes, hybrid and in-person is more for you. So think about what’s made you happy in the past or what’s worked for your life in the past and lean on that as well.

Mac Prichard:

Well, it’s been a terrific conversation, Liz. Now, tell us, what’s next for you?

Liz Bronson:

Well, Mac, I’m hoping to be in a new role by the time we air this, but I will definitely be at realjobtalk.com and on our podcast, “Real Job Talk.” I’m also going to be doing some more writing and I’m always mentoring as well. There’s a lot that keeps me busy.

Mac Prichard:

Well, you and your co-host Kat do a wonderful job on Real Job Talk and I hope listeners will check out the show, and I know that you also encourage listeners to connect with you on LinkedIn. When you do reach out to Liz, please mention that you heard her on Find Your Dream Job.

Now, Liz, given all of the great advice you’ve shared today, what’s the one thing you want a listener to remember about in-person, hybrid, and remote: what works for you?

Liz Bronson:

Have that “must-have” list for yourself and know what will work for your life, where it is today, and make sure that those parameters are kept in mind as you’re evaluating opportunities.

Mac Prichard:

Next week, our guest will be Danny Leonard.

He’s the co-founder of Ramped.

It’s a mission-driven technology company that’s revolutionizing the job search.

Your time is your most valuable asset.

And too many job seekers waste time on repetitive tasks.

That’s not only boring.

It also makes it harder to do the strategic work that can help you find your next job faster.

Join us next Wednesday when Danny Leonard and I talk about how to automate your job search and focus on strategy.

Until next time, thanks for letting us help you find your dream job.

This show is produced by Mac’s List.

Susan Thornton-Hough schedules our guests and writes our newsletter. Lisa Kislingbury Anderson manages our social media.

Our sound engineer and editor is Matt Fiorillo. Dawn Mole creates our transcripts. And our music is by Freddy Trujillo.

This is Mac Prichard. See you next week.