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Why Culture Fit Matters and How to Address It, with Jessica Conn

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You might be willing to accept any position offered to you, but that can often lead to a poor fit within a company. Find Your Dream Job guest Jessica Conn says fitting into the culture of a workplace is crucial to your future with that employer. Your values, beliefs, and actions need to align with those of the environment. Jessica suggests doing enough research before an interview to ask clarifying questions of the hiring manager. Don’t go against your values for a paycheck, or you could find yourself back in the job search sooner than you hoped. 

About Our Guest:

Jessica Conn is the human resources manager at Oregon AFSCME Council 75. 

Resources in This Episode:

Transcript

Find Your Dream Job, Episode 484:

Why Culture Fit Matters and How to Address It, with Jessica Conn

Airdate: January 15, 2025

Mac Prichard:

This is Find Your Dream Job, the podcast that helps you get hired, have the career you want, and make a difference in life.

I’m your host, Mac Prichard. I’m also the founder of Mac’s List. It’s a job board in the Pacific Northwest that helps you find a fulfilling career.

Every Wednesday, I talk to a different expert about the tools you need to get the work you want.

When you find a job where you feel comfortable, you’re more productive and connected to your work and your colleagues.

Jessica Conn is here to talk about why culture fit matters and how to address it in your job search.

She’s the human resources manager at Oregon AFSCME Council 75.

It’s one of the fastest-growing unions in Oregon and represents more than 33,000 workers.

Jessica joins us from Portland, Oregon.

Well, let’s jump right into it, Jessica. What does culture fit mean, exactly?

Jessica Conn:

I think culture fit is really just the relationship that happens, not only between an employee and an employer, but it can also happen in teams. It really drives how the whole organization goes, and how everything trickles down from there. There’s this concept of screening folks for that culture fit, and really what folks are looking for is something based on the alignment of values, beliefs, or behaviors that’s really going to mesh well with the team.

Mac Prichard:

Sometimes, when I talk to job seekers, and culture comes up, candidates can get frustrated because they hear from a hiring manager, “Well, it wasn’t a good fit.” And sometimes, applicants don’t know what that means, exactly. Do you think job seekers and employers understand culture fit in the same way?

Jessica Conn:

I don’t think they do. I really think it’s a case-by-case basis. What I can say broadly is employers typically have something that’s really hard to describe when they talk to someone, which is this gut feeling that, the conversation is flowing really well, this person is hitting on key points, maybe accidentally or intentionally, but in a way that really makes that person memorable.

I think an easy way that you can put that into more of a formula is doing your research ahead of time about the employer. Did you look on their website, find what their mission statement was, and maybe some recent events? All of that can really give a large broad picture of what is important to an employer, and then what you need to do is ask yourself, how does that relate to you? You can even ask this question in an interview.

What is a value add? How would I be a culture fit to the team?

Mac Prichard:

Talk more about that because, as you said, I think some applicants think that culture fit, and talking about it can be a mysterious, unknowable process, so you mentioned the importance of doing research, asking questions about the culture fit in an interview.

What else, when employers are thinking about culture fit, matters to that hiring manager that a candidate should be aware of?

Jessica Conn:

Sure, I think you’re going to be on the lookout for some really key words. When you’re thinking about culture of where you’re going and you’re sitting in the interviewee seat, you’re thinking, are you using phrases like “a culture of communication,” “a culture of transparency.” That’s more of a green flag for an applicant. When you’re hearing things such as, “We’re a family here,” it tends to give me pause on what that relationship means.

As an employer, if you’re talking to someone and an employer is interviewing, they’re typically looking for someone who maybe has the right work ethic for that position and that’s really tailored to two things. It’s tailored to the position itself; are we talking about an accountant? Are we talking about a manufacturing worker? Those are very different things, but also just a sense of, “Oh, this person gets it.”

You find that more in mission-driven organizations. “Oh, they’re really passionate about our mission.” “Oh, they’re really passionate about where we’re going or the work.” That, I think, is what tends to catch folk’s attention when you’re trying to get this sense of invisible and omnipresent essence of culture, that a lot of folks don’t have a good answer to.

Mac Prichard:

I love that phrase that you used a moment ago, that an employer might think while listening to a candidate, “Ah, this person gets it. They understand us.”

Talk more about what a candidate can do to unravel that mystery. You mentioned looking at the website, paying attention to mission and values. What else have you seen, as a hiring manager, applicants do to demonstrate that they understand the culture of an organization and that they’re excited about it?

Jessica Conn:

Yeah, I look for evidence that they’ve done their research somewhat recently. That can look like, as I mentioned before, going to the website. That’s not the only piece of it though. There’s also social media, there’s news articles, there’s events. All of that can really demonstrate what an organization has been doing in the community.

Perhaps you’re looking at a larger corporation position, and yet you can see that this corporation has been a sponsor for certain events. That’s very important to them. Or you’re at a mission-driven organization and you can see they just had their annual fundraiser, they raised x amount of dollars for their mission, that’s really important to them, or they’ve had events where they’re asking for donations, like a clothing drive.

I think it’s really attention-grabbing when an applicant is in the interview and they’re able to reference, right off the bat, some relevant information. Not necessarily reading back information, but understanding that they’ve digested it. “Oh, I’ve seen you in the community doing this. That’s really important to me.” “Oh, I noticed that you’ve invested in XYZ, that’s amazing. Here’s why that’s important to me.”

Really tying the work back to yourself and vice versa. It’s very important for doing those first steps of relationship building.

Mac Prichard:

I want to go back to a point that you made at the start of our conversation, an employer who says, “We’re a family”, and I think I heard you say that was a red flag. Can you talk more about that?

Jessica Conn:

Yeah, it tends to be a red flag because I tend to see that phrase being used to describe an unspoken expectation that your first priority is that position because that’s your family. I think it used to maybe refer to family businesses or we have good relationships. More often than not, when that phrase comes up, I see it as being a little bit more on the toxic side of things, of “We’re so invested in this” or we kind of have this unspoken expectation of overworking yourself or working 50-60 hours a week, being salaried.

I think that’s really important to keep your radar up, if you will, or listen to that gut feeling. It’s really hard when you’re looking for a job search. I haven’t met many who enjoy putting themselves out there repeatedly, and typically, job seekers are under the sense of urgency and so they ignore, “Oh, well, that’s probably not a big deal,” “That might have given me pause but I’m just going to look past it.”

That’s where I really want to caution people to check their sense of urgency and what really matters to them because your own values misaligning with a company’s culture is going to become a recipe for disaster in the long run.

Mac Prichard:

I want to take a break but we come back, I want to talk more about why culture fit matters to employers but also why job seekers should make this a priority when they’re looking for their next position.

Stay with us.

When we return, Jessica Conn will continue to share her advice on why culture fit matters and how to address it in your job search.

We’re back in the Mac’s List studio. I’m talking with Jessica Conn.

She’s the human resources manager at Oregon AFSCME Council 75.

It’s one of the fastest-growing unions in Oregon and represents more than 33,000 workers.

Jessica joins us from Portland, Oregon.

Now, Jessica, before the break, we were talking about why culture fit matters and how to address it in your job search.

Tell us more about why employers care about culture fit. You walked us through, in the first segment, what culture fit is, what employers are listening for when talking to candidates, and how candidates might prepare for those conversations but why does this matter so much? Both to employers and I’d like to talk about why it matters to job seekers, too.

Jessica Conn:

Yeah, really, at the end of the day, both parties want this relationship to work out. The applicant wants to be the person who sticks and the employer wants to find someone who can mesh with the team and certainly doesn’t want to start the process all over again.

Bad culture fit is a bad deal for everyone. A hire that doesn’t stick can cost the employer roughly 30% of that annual salary if they leave around day 60, and not only that, you have a decrease in team morale. They’ve gotten to know someone, maybe they were excited about this person, or maybe it was starting off on the wrong foot from the get-go and now you’ve had a month plus of a tumultuous relationship.

If that goes poorly, exit happens, not only are we out the salary as an employer, but the applicant now has either an awkward employment listed on their resume, or they leave it off and now there’s a gap to explain. It’s a lose-lose situation, so ultimately, we want to do the best that we can do during that interview, on both sides of the table, to really get to know the other person, to really get to know the employer, why is this person interested in this position, and how everyone fits together nicely.

Mac Prichard:

In the first segment, you mentioned one of the red flags a candidate might pay attention to is an employer who says, “We’re all a family here.” Are there other red flags related to culture fit that either candidates or employers pay attention to that you’ve seen stand out?

Jessica Conn:

Sure, as an employer, I don’t know if it’s necessarily about culture fit; I can tell you it’s not a great first impression when someone’s ill-prepared to receive a phone call. What I mean by that is, most jobs want to see someone exhibit some sense of organization, and commitment right off the bat, and the applicant can prepare themselves by doing their homework on their applications. Beyond what I mentioned in terms of researching the employer, it’s also keeping yourself organized.

I have a hard time thinking of any position that doesn’t require some level of organization, and you can demonstrate that as an applicant by keeping track of where you’ve applied, when, what the position was. That can be as simple as utilizing a spreadsheet to organize your thoughts, to know who you’ve spoken to, maybe know what jobs are already off the table.

That way, when you pick up the phone, you’re immediately ready. “Oh, yes, you’re calling from this place. I’m so excited to talk with you. Here’s why I’m excited for that position.” You may even catch that recruiter or HR manager or hiring manager off guard in a good way. “Wow! This person is really prepared to have a conversation.”

As an applicant, talking to employers and looking for more of those yellow or red flags, I would say, the mass exit of leadership is always going to be a little bit of a yellow or red flag. Mass restructuring, although sometimes it’s very beneficial, sometimes, coming in right when it’s happened can be very difficult to navigate a position.

Overall, some instability, either related to what I just mentioned or something else where, “Oh, we’re so excited. We’ve hired a brand new team, which is really exciting.” I think folks just need to keep their expectations in mind that, anytime there’s a new anything, there’s a lot of front work to happen in order to implement whatever that might be – new leadership, new systems, new policies, what have you.

It’s not always a red flag, but it can be a yellow flag.

Mac Prichard:

How do you suss that out if you’re an applicant and you are talking to an employer who’s had those kinds of changes: a big change in leadership, a new program, or a new team? How do you know it’s an opportunity and not a snake pit?

Jessica Conn:

I think being direct is actually encouraged in this particular situation. Say you’re interviewing with the hiring manager, and they mentioned that they had a brand new corporate structure or they have brand new leadership, it’s really okay to ask clarifying questions.

Maybe preface it with, “That sounds really new and exciting.” “That sounds really interesting. May I ask, what spawned this new structure? What encouraged the new policies? How did that come about?”

Any form of that question, I think, is more than appropriate because you’re doing your due diligence as a person to figure out, “Is this where I want to be for the next five or ten years?”

Mac Prichard:

Well, let’s talk more about the job seeker’s perspective when it comes to culture fit. What can happen, both in your job search and your career, Jessica, if you don’t pay attention to culture fit?

Jessica Conn:

You may find yourself in an employment situation that perhaps you weren’t prepared for or starts to bleed into other aspects of your life. Perhaps you start a position, and there’s that honeymoon period that happens, “This is great, it’s new and exciting.” We have lots of good feelings and, overall, dopamine about this new experience, and then once we start to come off of that and start to get more into the month 3, 4, 5 and the more routine parts of the job comes out and the more routine parts of the culture comes out and you start to realize, “I’m not in a good spot.”

Then, that sense of urgency comes back that you maybe just got away from by getting this position. Perhaps a sense of dread can settle in and then your overall morale can drop, the team can drop, or maybe it already was and you didn’t notice it. You start to ask yourself, “Where am I going to go with this? Am I going to put my head down and get a minimum of two years on my resume and just push through?”

Is there a way to maybe shift part of some worse, more achievable parts of culture? Maybe inter-team communication just needs a little bit of fine-tuning.” But if there’s massive overarching culture issues, you really have to ask yourself “What’s my timeline?” Because you can’t control an entire organization’s culture.

Mac Prichard:

We talked in the first segment about what candidates can do to understand how culture matters to employers, researching websites, you mentioned mission and values, but what about the job seeker themselves? How do you recommend a candidate get clear about the work culture you want when you’re looking for work? What steps have you seen be effective?

Jessica Conn:

I think the most effective thing that you can do is look for a job the same way that you might look for somewhere to live. You need to know your “must-haves,” “nice-to-haves”, and your “non-negotiables.” It’s easy to say, when you’re employed, say gainfully employed, and you make more of a slow switch. It’s not quite as easy to say when perhaps you’ve been laid off, you’re in more of an urgent situation and you start to negotiate with yourself, “Oh, is that really a must-have? Maybe that non-negotiable is a little too much?”

I really encourage folks, as much as they possibly can, taking into account that you have to pay your bills at the end of the day to keep your values in check. Know what your values are, and maybe even do a values exercise that I’ve been led through before, it’s very helpful. Identify what those are, how that ties to a position, and don’t budge, as much as you can because the minute that you start having what is called “values violation,” as I’ve learned from other career coaches, is you start to be affected, and ultimately, your happiness is on the line.

Mac Prichard:

Well, it’s been a terrific conversation, Jessica. Now, tell us, what’s next for you?

Jessica Conn:

For me, my goal, being in human resources, is to reframe exactly what human resources means. I want to emphasize the resources portion of my job title. Encouraging that HR culture shifts into being the place to ask questions, seek resources, and I encourage all HR leaders to come to the field with an open mind, be approachable, and navigate those difficult situations with empathy while communicating the reality of any given situation.

Mac Prichard:

Well, I know that listeners can learn more about you and your work by visiting the Oregon AFSCME website. That URL is www.oregonafscme.org

Now, Jessica, given all of the great advice that you’ve shared today, what’s the one thing you want a listener to remember about why culture fit matters and how to address it in your job search?

Jessica Conn:

A takeaway I’d want anyone to get from this podcast is to be an advocate for yourself and know where your values are. Don’t be afraid to ask questions as they pertain to any of the things that we’ve talked about today.

Mac Prichard:

Next week, our guest will be Kristen McConnell.

She’s the chief operating officer and talent advisor at Mulberry Talent Partners.

It’s a boutique recruiting agency that helps employers and candidates find the perfect match.

A job search can take several months or even longer.

And as time passes you may need a midcourse correction.

Join us next Wednesday when Kristin McConnell and I talk about when and how to revisit your job search goals.

Until next time, thanks for letting us help you find your dream job.

This show is produced by Mac’s List.

Susan Thornton-Hough schedules our guests and writes our newsletter. Lisa Kislingbury Anderson manages our social media.

Our sound engineer and editor is Matt Fiorillo. Dawn Mole creates our transcripts. And our music is by Freddy Trujillo.

This is Mac Prichard. See you next week.