Interview Red Flags from an Employer’s Perspective, with Frank Smith

Making it to a final interview is not a guaranteed job offer. If you’re meeting with the CEO or higher management, this is the time to stand out from the other candidates. Find Your Dream Job guest Frank Smith shares how to do that in a positive way. Come prepared with relevant questions. Be clear on why you think this job is the right one for you. Don’t bad-mouth a former employer. And, most importantly, says Frank, do your research on the company so you can state clearly why you’re the best fit for the position and the company as a whole. 

About Our Guest:

Frank Smith is the president of Mosaic Personnel. It’s a recruiting firm that places great people in the right opportunities.

Resources in This Episode:

Connect with Frank on LinkedIn.

Transcript

Find Your Dream Job, Episode 482:

Interview Red Flags from an Employer’s Perspective, with Frank Smith

Airdate: January 2, 2025

Mac Prichard:

This is Find Your Dream Job, the podcast that helps you get hired, have the career you want, and make a difference in life.

I’m your host, Mac Prichard. I’m also the founder of Mac’s List. It’s a job board in the Pacific Northwest that helps you find a fulfilling career.

Every Wednesday, I talk to a different expert about the tools you need to get the work you want.

You have a final interview for a job.

You meet with the top leader of the organization.

And you don’t get an offer.

What happened?

Frank Smith is here to talk about interview red flags from an employer’s perspective.

He’s the president of  Mosaic Personnel. It’s a recruiting firm that places great people in the right opportunities.

He joins us from Portland, Oregon.

Well, let’s jump right into it, Frank; when you have that final interview as a candidate, what matters most to an employer?

Frank Smith:

One of the first things that I look for, and one of the questions that I’ll ask, is “Why do you want the job that you’ve applied for?” And if they can’t give me a clear answer of what that looks like, and why they want this job, why it helps them accomplish what they’re trying to accomplish in their life, why it gets them where they’re trying to go, that’s the first red flag for me because they’re really not aware of where they’re trying to go, and so they can’t really make a good decision as to if this job will get them to where they need to be.

I’m looking for somebody that has a clear picture of why this job fits in their life right now, why it helps them accomplish what their personal purpose is or what their goals are in their life, and if they can’t really clarify that to me when I ask them why they want the job that they’re applying for, that’s the first area that I start to get a flag on.

Mac Prichard:

That’s a huge red flag, Frank, but I’m curious, how does that happen? At this point you’re meeting with, say the CEO, or your boss’s boss, and you’ve probably been through one or two interviews, you filled out an application. How could you not know the answer to that question?

Frank Smith:

I think it’s really just a lack of self-awareness. It’s, sometimes, you’re looking so close that you can’t see the forest for the trees. You’re just thinking about, “I need a job, I need to get income coming in,” which is understandable. We’ve all been in that spot before, but I’m looking for someone that aligns and fits with our organization and someone that, working for us is going to get them where they want to go and if they really don’t have a clear picture of where they want to go, you’d be surprised how often you run into that.

People just haven’t given it that much thought. They’re just looking for the next job that might lead them somewhere, but they really don’t know where that is. I find that, usually, down the road, it means that they either don’t stay with me very long or they’re unhappy because they really didn’t stop and think about what our culture was or how they aligned with our business and the job, and it usually ends up to be dissatisfactory for both of us, in a pretty short amount of time.

I find that a lot. People don’t really have a clear thought about where they’re trying to get to. They’re just trying to get the job. We get so tied up in, “I’m just trying to get the job, I want to win this interview,” that you forget about the bigger picture.

Mac Prichard:

What’s your best advice for how to prepare an answer to that question? What do you think candidates should do?

Frank Smith:

What always impresses me is when someone is like, “Here’s where I’m trying to get to, here’s where I feel like my skillsets would serve this job, here’s what I enjoy doing and what I’m trying to, in your job, helps me build these additional skills in order to get where I’m trying to go.”

That’s the kind of answer that I’m looking for. I don’t expect them to stay with me for 20 years, so even if where they’re trying to go doesn’t fit into our organization, if I can be a piece of that for 3 or 4 years, and they know where they’re trying to get, that just tells me a little bit about their mindset and that they are good at setting goals and knowing where they’re heading and what works and what doesn’t work to help get them there.

Which is an important skill set that I’m looking for when I’m hiring someone to get the work done. What is it going to take to get this? What does the end project look like? Do they have the ability to paint that clear picture and know what steps it’s going to take to get them from here to there?

I think them knowing where they’re trying to go and giving that some thought and understanding if this job helps is really the best thing that they can do. Just be honest with that in the interview and tell me where you’re trying to get to and how does this job fit that.

Mac Prichard:

In that final interview, you might be one of two or three candidates. Why do employers talk to more than one candidate in that final round? What’s going on there?

Frank Smith:

Yeah, I think for me, part of it is that I like to have multiple interactions with a candidate. The more people talk, the more you can find out what’s underlying the situation. They may tell you one thing in the first interview, but if you have the chance to talk to them multiple times, through two or three stages of the interview process, you might start to hear different answers, which goes back to that first piece, they might not really be being honest with you about where they’re trying to get.

It’s important, I think, to have multiple steps in the interview process for certain positions. Also, the other piece of that, is I’m looking for what makes one person stand out over another, and clarity of purpose is something that definitely, for me, stands out. So if I have three people that have all met the qualifications and they’ve all done a good job in the first round of interviews, these last questions are designed to really figure out who has the clearer picture of what they’re trying to accomplish, what they want in a job, and I’ll usually pick that person that seems to be more focused and clear, versus the person who’s like, “Well, anything works for me.”

That just doesn’t excite me as much when I’m interviewing somebody.

Mac Prichard:

You’re speaking from the perspective of a CEO. Often in that final round of interviews, a candidate might meet, not only with the CEO or the “top boss” of an organization but with other people as well on the leadership team or perhaps future colleagues. What are those people looking for when they sit down with a candidate who’s part of a final round of interviews?

Frank Smith:

The first thing that they’re looking for, obviously, is qualifications. We’ve seen their resumes, do they really seem to be able to talk the talk that was on their resume and understand the role that they’re looking for? “This is what I’ve done. This is what I’m trying to accomplish.”

In the first round, you’re trying to look and make sure that they have the skill set that you actually need. For us, then, as we move up, we’re looking for more of a big picture of how does this fit in, but in that first round, we’re looking for, do you have the experience? Do you have the skills we think it takes in order to be a great recruiter or business developer?

That’s what we’re looking for in the earlier stages, it’s more of the skills. As we move to the later rounds, we’re looking more for culture fit, purpose alignment, and all of those things.

Mac Prichard:

You’ve talked about purpose. Culture fit, sometimes I meet applicants who are frustrated when they hear that phrase because they’re not quite sure how to demonstrate culture fit or what that means exactly.

From an employer’s perspective, Frank, what advice would you have for a candidate who wants to understand an organization’s culture and see if, not only, it’s a good fit for them, but demonstrate to an employer that it would be good for the organization and they would fit into that culture as well?

Frank Smith:

Sure, that’s a great question because a lot of people don’t really know what culture is. We throw the word around a lot but sometimes we’re not super clear on what makes up the culture. I know that some people think that it’s ping pong tables and nap pods, and that kind of thing, but there’s a lot more to the culture. It really gets down to, what’s the purpose of the organization. Do I align with the purpose of the organization and what they’re trying to accomplish?

That translates into, what’s the pace of the organization? Are they trying to grow? Are they a startup and they’re trying to grow 400% a year and they expect you to work 60-70 hours a week?

All of those pieces are part of the culture, and what’s the relational levels that you want within the organization? Do you get to know each other socially and personally or do we really just focus on work in the organization?

As a candidate is interviewing for a job and they ask us questions about, “What does the culture look like?” they need to get more specific. “What does the typical week look like for someone in this position?” And ask those kinds of questions so that they can understand what the work/life balance looks like, what the social interactions look like.

In our organization, we’re going to tell you that we expect you to work 45 hours a week in this job. It’s not a straight-up 40-hour-a-week job. You’re also going to have a one-on-one meeting with your direct supervisor every week, and if we work hybrid, these are the expectations that we have when you’re on hybrid. These are the hours that you still need to work. You need to be on with your camera on on Zoom calls.

Asking those kinds of questions is all part of the culture, and you’re trying to figure out, as the candidate, whether you align with their culture or not, so the more detailed questions that you can ask about, what does it really look like to work here, what do the interactions with your boss look like, those kinds of questions give you a picture of the culture of the organization and then you can decide if you align with that or not.

If they’re full in office and you want a hybrid or remote job, that’s already an alignment problem and so those are the kinds of questions that you need to be asking during the interview process in order to understand that a little bit better.

Mac Prichard:

Well, terrific, Frank. We’re going to take a break.

Stay with us. When we come back, Frank Smith will continue to share his advice on interview red flags from the employer’s perspective.

We’re back in the Mac’s List studio. I’m talking with Frank Smith

He’s the president of Mosaic Personnel. It’s a recruiting firm that places great people in the right opportunities.

He joins us from Portland, Oregon.

Now, Frank, before the break, we were talking about interview red flags from an employer’s perspective, and we talked a lot about purpose, knowing what you want and about culture, and making sure that what you’re looking for as a candidate aligns with what an organization offers, and from an employer’s perspective, how important it is that you’re looking for candidates who are interested in what an organization offers.

That was your most important red flag, but let’s walk through some of the others that can come up in an interview, especially in that final round. Another one on your list that you say can disqualify a candidate is the applicant who says in the interview that they’re applying for one job in the organization, but what really interests them is another position.

Why don’t hiring managers, like you, like to hear that, Frank?

Frank Smith:

The reason that we don’t like to hear that is because we’re interviewing for this current position. I’m not interviewing for the position that you’re telling me that you really want. I’m spending my time and effort trying to get a recruiter position filled, and you show up and say that you’re interested in doing training, really is what you’re really wanting to do, and you’re just taking this opportunity to try to get your foot in the door and let us know that if that position ever comes open I’m interested in that. That’s frustrating to us because our focus right now is on hiring this one specific position and not some future position that might become available, and so it feels a little bit like you’re wasting our time when we’re really trying to get this one position filled.

I see that happen with my clients and I also see that happen in my own organization quite a bit, where people will come in and they’ll interview for this but what they really want, and they’ll tell you that in the interview, is a different position in the organization, which is kind of frustrating.

Mac Prichard:

Sometimes a candidate, especially with large organizations that might have hundreds or even thousands of jobs, might want a career with that employer, and they do want to get their foot in the door. What advice would you have for somebody who sees an opening, especially at a big employer, and thinks, “Well, my dream is to work at Nike. I’ll take any job I can get in order to meet people and move up.”

What would you recommend to someone who’s thinking that?

Frank Smith:

First, I would say that there’s nothing wrong with that approach, but just focus on the job that you’re actually interviewing for, and don’t, already, in the interview process be pushing that you want something else. Focus on the position that you’re interviewing for to get your foot in the door, then do that job really well and the other stuff, I find, will actually happen later on because you’ve proven yourself in the job that you got hired for and not something else.

Mac Prichard:

Another red flag that you cite that can disqualify a candidate in that final round of interviews is to bad mouth a past employer. Why does this hurt you as a candidate, Frank?

Frank Smith:

One question I will always ask is, why are you leaving the current job that you’re in, or why did you leave your last job, and if they bad mouth their past employer, I know that I’m probably going to be the next person that they bad mouth when something doesn’t go right.

People who don’t know how to navigate that question, there’s a reason that you’re leaving, but to navigate that well and not bad mouth somebody in the process gives me an idea of how well you can handle a social interaction with people. People are always going to frustrate you and if you just can’t control that and you’re saying things about your past employer, my experience is, I become the next person that frustrates you and then you’re going to do the same thing to me.

Inside the organization, possibly, which helps to disrupt the culture, which is something that we can’t put up with.

Mac Prichard:

What advice do you have for someone who is leaving an employer because they’ve been treated unfairly and they’re asked that question? What is a good response or principle to follow?

Frank Smith:

Yeah, I think one of the best ways to handle that is to just explain that, “I was looking for this and the company couldn’t offer that for me, as I was trying to get to this point in my career, and so I felt like it was time for me to move on.”

You can be vague like that, and it lets your imagination run on what that might have been, but you didn’t specifically call out anybody and say that these people are bad, or whatever. You just said, “Hey, there was an alignment issue here and I didn’t feel like this was helping me accomplish my personal goals and so I decided to move on for these reasons.

I think that that is a way that I would accept from a candidate in an interview process with me, letting me know that, “Hey, there was some things there but I’m not going to go into the details, but I just felt that it was best for me to move on and not continue to bang my head against a wall there.”

Mac Prichard:

Another red flag you see regularly in finalists and interviews is the applicant who hasn’t researched the company. Why is this a warning sign for an employer?

Frank Smith:

It tells you a little bit about the thoroughness of how they’re going to do their job. If you are interviewing for our organization, you can’t look at our website without understanding that culture is important to us and that it’s a big part of what we focus on internally but also as we help candidates find jobs with great cultures. If you haven’t researched that on our website, and picked that up, and asked some questions about our culture or how we do that, that just throws a flag up to me that says that you’re not as thorough as I’m going to need you to be in your job because you’re trying to get this job and if you haven’t even taken the time to look at the website and figure out who we are, again, it comes back to, I don’t really know if you understand what you’re trying to accomplish by getting this job.

Mac Prichard:

Look at the website; any other advice for showing, in that final interview, that you’ve done your homework, Frank?

Frank Smith:

Yeah, with LinkedIn you can obviously chase down their posts, either from people that work there or the company’s LinkedIn posts, and kind of see what they’re posting about. Are they active in the community? Are they working on certain projects that seem exciting to you? If you can connect in to their social media, wherever that may be found, and be able to ask some questions about, “Hey, I saw that you guys were doing this as a community project. Tell me about how you got started in that.”

It just shows that you’ve looked into us, who we are, and want to know more about why we do some of the things that we do.

Mac Prichard:

Another red flag in that final interview is the candidate who doesn’t ask any questions, no questions at all. Why do you, as an employer, care about this, Frank?

Frank Smith:

I want to know that you’re interested in us and that you’re doing your due diligence as well, and the interview is really a 2 sided process. I’m interviewing you to see if I feel like you fit here. You should also be interviewing me to see if I’m a fit for you, and if you don’t have any questions at all, that just tells me that you’re not really trying to align, again, you’re just trying to win the interview process and so you don’t have a standard that you’re trying to measure us against, which tells me a little bit about how you work elsewhere as well, and I always want people who are pushing themselves and trying to say, “Hey, this meets the standard, or this doesn’t meet the standard.”

If you don’t have questions for me, that makes me feel like you don’t have a standard that you’re trying for this position to meet up to.

Mac Prichard:

What kind of questions do you recommend an applicant ask in a final interview?

Frank Smith:

Yeah, it really can be a lot of anything about, “How did the company get started? Tell me some of that story. What are some of your passion projects that you’re working on?” It really doesn’t have to be anything mind-blowing question that someone can ask. It can just be a simple question to get a better understanding of who the people you’re working with are. “I see you guys do some work in the community. Tell me about how you select those projects.” “I see that culture is important to you. Tell me a little bit about why that’s important to you.”

Let the CEO or the hiring manager talk a little bit about that and see if their answer resonates with you. Again, you’re interviewing them as much as they’re interviewing you because if it doesn’t work for both sides, it’s going to be very short-lived.

Mac Prichard:

Struggling with conversation in an interview is another red flag that you’ve identified. What do you have in mind here, Frank?

Frank Smith:

You know, business is about relationships, and working in an organization is about getting along with your coworkers, and being able to communicate well. If you’re in an interview situation and, even if you’re introverted, I understand that not everybody is a big conversationalist, but if you just answered my questions with the least number of words possible, that throws up a flag for me that says, we’re probably going to have a hard time having conversations about projects and about things, especially when they become crucial conversations, you’re going to withdraw even more.

If we can’t communicate well with each other, that’s a flag for me because problems are going to come up and we’re going to need to be able to communicate through those issues, and if all I get from you, even in the interview, which isn’t confrontational, is quick, one-word answers, that just tells me that you’re going to struggle with having conversations.

That’s part of our culture. Some other company might be less conversational, and that might work well for them. My companies that I run are always very relational and so I’m looking for those people who can have a good conversation and that doesn’t struggle.

Again, you don’t have to be very verbose, but just be able to have and hold a conversation is important because when things get tough, we need to be able to talk and this is helping me see that if you’re able to handle an interview situation well.

Mac Prichard:

Well, it’s been a terrific conversation, Frank. Now, tell us, what’s next for you?

Frank Smith:

Yeah, so I help differentiate our recruiting company by focusing on culture and I do coaching and training that help companies build a better culture. If you have people, you have problems. I love getting into that and helping companies resolve their people issues and helping their leaders engage with the employees so that you build a great culture. That’s where I spend my time and that’s what I love doing.

Mac Prichard:

I know listeners can learn more about you and your work by visiting your website; that URL is drivinghappinessatwork.com, and that you also invite listeners to connect with you on LinkedIn, and when you do reach out to Frank, please mention that you heard him on Find Your Dream Job.

Now, Frank, given all of the great advice that you’ve shared today, what’s the one thing you want a listener to remember about interview red flags from an employer’s perspective?

Frank Smith:

The number one thing I would tell someone is to know what you want out of this job. Why does this job help you accomplish what you’re trying to accomplish in your life? And that’s going to excite me as the interviewer to know that this job resonates with you, it gets you where you’re trying to go, and that tells us that we have the best chance of actually connecting together and working well together.

Mac Prichard:

Next week, our guest will be Kai River.

They are the human resources administrator at Habitat for Humanity, Portland Region.

It’s part of a global nonprofit housing organization that works across the United States and in 70 countries.

There’s only so much room on a page.

And that space can seem even smaller when you make your case that you’re the best person for the job.

Join us next Wednesday when Kai River and I talk about how to write a cover letter that makes you stand out.

Until next time, thanks for letting us help you find your dream job.

This show is produced by Mac’s List.

Susan Thornton-Hough schedules our guests and writes our newsletter. Lisa Kislingbury Anderson manages our social media.

Our sound engineer is Carlay Ream-Neal. Our editor is Matt Fiorillo. Dawn Mole creates our transcripts. And our music is by Freddy Trujillo.

This is Mac Prichard. See you next week.