How to Find a Job That’s a Good Fit for You, with Kat Nelson Troyer

Why would anyone accept a job that’s not a good fit? Fear. If you lost your job suddenly, fear may propel you to accept whatever you can find. But a job that’s a good fit is life-changing, says Find Your Dream Job guest Kat Nelson Troyer. Kat suggests taking the time to clarify what you want from a job, what you can offer an employer, and where you want to go in your career. Kat also recommends developing a “board of advisors;” people who know you well and can encourage and help you along the way. 

About Our Guest:

Kat Nelson Troyer is an executive, team, and career coach, and the CEO of Jigsaw Solutions. 

Kat also co-hosts the excellent Real Job Talk podcast.

Resources in This Episode:

• Do you have a career question you’d like answered? Email Kat at realjobtalk@gmail.com and she may feature your question on her podcast. 
• Connect with Kat on LinkedIn.
• Grab the exclusive NordVPN deal: https://nordvpn.com/dreamjob and get extra subscription time. Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee. Thanks to NordVPN for sponsoring our show.

Transcript

Find Your Dream Job, Episode 478:

How to Find a Job That’s a Good Fit for You, with Kat Nelson Troyer

Airdate: November 27, 2024

Mac Prichard:

This is Find Your Dream Job, the podcast that helps you get hired, have the career you want, and make a difference in life.

I’m your host, Mac Prichard. I’m also the founder of Mac’s List. It’s a job board in the Pacific Northwest that helps you find a fulfilling career.

Every Wednesday, I talk to a different expert about the tools you need to get the work you want.

Because of uncertainty or fear, you may apply for jobs that don’t feel right.

But doing this can make your job search harder and even hurt your career.

Kat Nelson Troyer is here to talk about how to find a job that’s a good fit for you.

She’s an executive, team, and career coach, and the CEO of Jigsaw Solutions.

Kat also co-hosts the excellent Real Job Talk podcast.

She joins us from Half Moon Bay, California.

Well, let’s jump right into it, Kat. Let’s start with definitions. What does a job that’s a good fit look like?

Kat Nelson Troyer:

A job that is a good fit is a job that utilizes your skills and your experience and also ignites your passions.

Mac Prichard:

How about a bad fit, Kat? What does that look like?

Kat Nelson Troyer:

Oh, a bad fit is a little bit more challenging to discuss, but maybe not utilizing your skills or your experience, or it may just be the wrong fit, the wrong culture, perhaps, just not the right fit with the people that you work with because the people that you work with, it’s so important to have a good fit with those folks. They can make or break your job experience, I believe.

Mac Prichard:

It sounds like a clear choice. Why do people apply for jobs that might not be a good fit? What’s going on there?

Kat Nelson Troyer:

I think that, especially when someone is newly out of work, or out of work without a lot of warning, if they’ve been laid off or if there was a reduction in force, or if their job was terminated for some reason, that can lead to fear and uncertainty and people just wanting to get a job as fast as possible without really thinking about the important things, like making sure that you’ve got a job that is a good fit.

You know exactly what you want and you’ve maybe narrowed it down to a few different job titles and are systematically moving forward to finding a job that is going to be a good fit for you.

Mac Prichard:

Well, I know we’re going to talk about how to find that job that’s a good fit, but before we get there, you mentioned fear and uncertainty.

What’s the best way to manage those emotions when you’re in that position? Particularly if you find yourself out of work unexpectedly.

Kat Nelson Troyer:

I think it’s important to understand that it’s absolutely natural to have apprehension when you’re initiating a job search and that fears and doubts, they are a normal part, not only of the career experience, but of the human experience, so to normalize that as much as possible, and to know that fear, uncertainty, and doubt are most likely going to come up for you at some point in your job search. Especially if you’ve had an unexpected lay-off or termination.

Expect it and normalize it, and prepare yourself emotionally for this.

When I work one-on-one with people, I make sure that they have what I call “mantras in their back pockets.” Statements that they can pull out whenever they need to, that helps them connect with their strengths and their hope, to help them feel empowered that they will make the right choice.

Mac Prichard:

Can employers tell when a candidate is applying for a position because of fear or uncertainty? Is that apparent in the application or perhaps in the interview?

Kat Nelson Troyer:

You know, I think that probably shows up in the interview more than the application, unless the application is just completely random. I mean, I was a recruiter for 20 years before I moved over into the work that I do now, and so, sometimes I would receive a resume where there was no alignment with the job description.

When I see that I might think, “Are they just throwing things out there so that one of them will eventually stick?” And that type of behavior may be coming from uncertainty or fear, but I think that in the interview process, that’s where a candidate can very much convey who they are and what they’re looking for, and what’s going to be a good fit for them.

That’s the kind of energy that you want to bring into your job interview.

Mac Prichard:

In your days as a recruiter, when you got to the finalist stage, you might talk to three or five candidates; if one or two of them were uncertain about the position, could you tell? And how would that affect your decision about who you gave an offer to?

Kat Nelson Troyer:

Well, if a candidate is uncertain, it’s going to show up in the interview. It’s going to show up in the interview, and when I would give my notes to the hiring manager, I would let them know, that this person may have the right skills and experience, but I’m not certain that this is a job that they feel certain about, so I would encourage the hiring manager and interview team to really probe on that.

Mac Prichard:

Some candidates might say, “Well, I’m using the job interview as a way to find out if this is a job that’s a good fit for me.” What would happen when people did that, Kat?

Kat Nelson Troyer:

I would respect that as a recruiter because that means that they proactively understand that fit is essential, and I would encourage them to ask any questions that would help them determine whether or not the job would be a good fit for them. I would always tell candidates, “Hey, you’re interviewing us as well. Feel free to ask any questions that will support that process for you.”

Mac Prichard:

How about your career? If you take a position that’s not a good fit for you, how will that affect your career in the long run?

Kat Nelson Troyer:

If it’s not a good fit, it is going to affect your career in that you’re probably not going to stay as long, and longevity is still something that people look for on resumes. So I tell folks when they get into roles that aren’t a good fit, just to make sure that they are able to speak to that role when they’re interviewing, and it’s okay to share that it wasn’t a good fit and to share why but to also to do it in a way where you position what you learned in that role as well, and to find the through-line, throughout your career, of the contributions that you’ve made in your career.

Mac Prichard:

Well, let’s talk about how to find a job that’s a good fit. One of the steps that you recommend taking is to be clear about what you want, what you offer, and where you want to go.

Those are three questions that are going to be difficult for some applicants to answer. Why is it important to have those answers?

Kat Nelson Troyer:

I think it’s essential to have those answers because the interview team is expecting that, so those are the basic things you need to be prepared for when you start your search. I think that that means that you need to know yourself, and you need to ask yourself some really important questions.

I take people through a process where we look at their career chronologically and we go through each job, and I go back to the first job they had, even if maybe they were a babysitter. I’ll say, “What did you like about that job? What didn’t you like about that job? Let’s talk about your boss. What did you like about the boss? What didn’t you like?”

I have a number of questions that I take people through and what that does is it gives them clarity about what they’re looking for and what they’re not looking for so that they go into that interview process super clear.

When a candidate is super clear an employer is generally very happy about that because that helps the employer to decipher whether it’s going to be a good fit for them because we want a good fit on both sides.

Mac Prichard:

Do you need to do this work before you send out your first application?

Kat Nelson Troyer:

Absolutely, absolutely, and I’ve got a tool that I’ll share a little bit later that can help people do that.

Mac Prichard:

Why do you need to do it before you hit send on that resume? Some people might say, “I’ll figure it out as I go along, once I get an interview.”

Why don’t you recommend that approach, Kat?

Kat Nelson Troyer:

Well, I think that having clarity on what exactly you want is going to make your resume better, first of all. Having that clarity will support the resume, it will support the positions that you apply for, and it will also support the interview once you’re there.

It’s essential that people know themselves because if we don’t know ourselves and know what our strengths are and know what our weaknesses are as well, and be able to bring that to the table and speak to those clearly, we just won’t do well in the interview process, and that will mean fewer job offers, at the end of the process.

What I like is for folks to have multiple offers that they can choose from, and by being prepared, that supports that.

Mac Prichard:

Terrific. Let’s pause there, Kat.

Stay with us. We’re going to take a break.

When we come back, Kat Nelson Troyer will continue to share her advice on how to find a job that’s a good fit for you.

We’re back in the Mac’s List studio. I’m talking with Kat Nelson Troyer.

She’s an executive, team, and career coach, and the CEO of Jigsaw Solutions.

Kat also co-hosts the excellent Real Job Talk podcast.

She joins us from Half Moon Bay, California.

Now, Kat, we’re talking today about how to find a job that’s a good fit for you, and one of the points you made at the close of the first segment is that you need to be clear, before you send that first application, about what you want, what you offer, and where you want to go.

Talk a little more about the importance of why you need to know where you want to go. And how do you advise the people you work with to figure that out?

Kat Nelson Troyer:

If you don’t know where you want to go, that is going to show up in the interview process, so it’s very important that you at least have a sense of where you want to go in your career, and it’s important to get clarity as soon as possible, at the start of your search, about what you want, what you offer, and where you want to go.

That means doing a self-assessment about your strengths, your needs, the personality fits, and also the available opportunities.

What I do with folks, and we have a resource on the Real Job Talk website, which is realjobtalk.com; there’s a resources page. If you click on the tab, we have a “Must-have” list, and that takes you through the process that helps you to identify all of those things. It’s important, it’s very important, for you to be clear on what is essential for you in your next role.

The “must-haves” list will help you to stay focused, it’ll help you to apply for the right jobs, and what I think is the most important piece about it, is when you get your offer, you’re going to use your must-haves list like a checklist, to make sure that the essential things that you need to be successful in your next role are covered in the job offer.

Mac Prichard:

Another step that you recommend for finding a job that’s a good fit is to make sure that you align you resume with the employer’s needs. How does this help you, Kat? And how do you do it?

Kat Nelson Troyer:

Absolutely, I think that’s where reading the job description is very important and to make sure that your resume covers at least 70% of the skills and the experiences that they’re looking for, and if there’s anything else that seems unique about the job description, you can tailor your resume to that. I recommend that people have two or three different resumes, depending on the jobs that they apply for.

For example, if you are in account management, there may be different titles that will use your skillset and that you could do. Know what those titles are, and then, make sure that your resume reflects the job description. That means each time that you apply for a job, you do that scan and you make an adjustment if needed.

Mac Prichard:

How much time does that take and why does that make a difference to do that work?

Kat Nelson Troyer:

Well, if you’ve done the upfront work, doing a little tweak doesn’t take very much time at all. It means reading and reading the job description, scanning your resume, and making sure. That can take as little as 5 minutes, but the importance of having that alignment will be whether or not your resume gets passed on.

You have to remember that recruiters see hundreds of resumes a day, and they’re just going to put forward the resumes that are the strongest resumes, and that are the most aligned.

You want to do everything in your power to align your resume with the job description.

Mac Prichard:

What about red flags, Kat? What red flags should you look for when you’re applying for a job or perhaps you’re in an interview, that would signal to you that this job isn’t a good fit?

Kat Nelson Troyer:

I think you can see red flags starting with the job description. It’s kind of like a gut feeling, right? If you see something that doesn’t feel like it’s going to be a good fit, you may not want to apply for that job. I think we see red flags more in the job interview process, and that’s where you want to be asking similar questions to different interviewers, and you want to make sure that the responses are similar.

If you ask a question, “Oh tell me what this manager is like to work for?”

You want to make sure that the responses are aligned, and if they’re not, that would be a red flag for me. If work-life balance is super important to you, you ask questions about that, and if they come back and tell you that it’s usually a 60-70-80 hour work week, that would be a red flag.

It depends on that must-have list. What is important to you? And then you ask questions, and when the answers to those questions aren’t in alignment, that’s a red flag.

Mac Prichard:

So, look for inconsistencies in responses, and also revisit your must-haves page. What do you recommend to your clients, Kat, about that must-haves list?

Should you expect to get 100% of your must-haves or 70%? What’s a good ratio?

Kat Nelson Troyer:

No, what we do with that must-have list is, I first have them go to a dream place, where they think about if they could have the perfect job, they write me an ideal job, where they write their own ticket. I have them go through that process and really envision that, but the must-haves list is your bottom line.

“I need X amount of salary to survive. I need a boss that’s going to be fair and will act as a mentor. I need coworkers that I’m aligned with.” Whatever your must-have is; it’s going to be different for everyone, but maybe three to five items that are your non-negotiables. That’s what you need when you have your offer and you’re doing your checklist.

Mac Prichard:

So, you’ve got a list of three to five things that you must have, that if you don’t check all of the boxes, are you recommending to walk away? That might not be a good fit?

Kat Nelson Troyer:

I would recommend that. Now, we talk about, if the company has an espresso cart, how really important is that? We can always bring our own coffee into work. That shouldn’t be on a must-have list, but things like salary, relationship with the boss, and growth opportunities, if growth opportunities are important. Whatever is important to you really needs to line up or it may not be the best fit.

Mac Prichard:

I know that you’re also a big fan of treating the interview as a two-way conversation. Why should you do this, Kat? And how does it help you suss out whether a job is a good fit or not?

Kat Nelson Troyer:

Well, it’s really our responsibility, as a candidate, to make sure that we are…we’re making a big life change with a job, and we want to make sure that it’s a good fit.

By aligning to that must-have list, and asking questions like values, if integrity is incredibly important to you, and most companies have their values written on their website, and so one question that you could ask is, “Can you tell me how the team works with the value of integrity?”

Ask questions that are important to you. That’s the most important thing. Make sure that you know what’s important to you, and that must-have list will help you do that.

Mac Prichard:

Is there one question that you always recommend a candidate ask in order to figure out whether it’s a good fit or not?

Kat Nelson Troyer:

You know, an interesting question is to ask the team members that are interviewing you, if there were any surprises for them when they started their role, and what were they. That can really elicit some interesting information.

Mac Prichard:

Finally, what about mindset, Kat? How can paying attention to your mindset help you find a job that’s a good fit?

Kat Nelson Troyer:

You know, Mac, we talked about normalizing fear and doubt and expecting that in the process. The antidote to fear and doubt is having a positive mindset and believing in your ability to bring in the job that you want, that’s going to be a good fit for you. There are lots of steps to do that, but mindset is the most important thing. Then you work on your clarity, your resume, your preparation for interviews; all of that follows mindset.

We have to believe in our skills, in our experience, in our abilities, and if you have doubt in that, this is where I highly recommend developing a personal board of advisors, where you have people that know you very well.

They may be close friends, they may be family members, they may be colleagues, they may be former managers, but you want to connect with that network, and whenever those fears and doubts show up, reach out to one of your board of advisors who knows you really well, and they will reflect back to you who you are and their experience of you.

Have those mantras in your back pocket, so that you can feel safe and strong as you navigate this job search.

Mac Prichard:

It’s been a great conversation, Kat. Now, tell us, what’s next for you?

Kat Nelson Troyer:

What’s next for me? I am having fun with my co-host Liz on Real Job Talk. We love it. We’re about to have our hundredth episode and we don’t have any plans to stop. We love it when folks come and maybe have an issue with their career and reach out to us.

Our email is realjobtalk@gmail.com. If you have a career question or even need some career coaching, our favorite episodes are the ones where we do live career coaching on our shows.

Some folks are shy, so we’ll just do a listener question and we probably will have a conversation with you before we answer your question.

Mac Prichard:

Terrific. I know that listeners can also learn more about your own work by visiting your website, at jigsawsolutions.co.

Now, Kat, given all of the great advice that you’ve shared today, what’s the one thing you want a listener to remember about how to find a job that’s a good fit for you?

Kat Nelson Troyer:

I think you need to approach your job search like a job, and make sure that your mindset is strong and that you have good support, and that you’ve got practical steps to get you from point A to point B, which is finding that job that is a really good fit for yourself.

Mac Prichard:

Next week, our guest will be Jessica Fiesta George.

A seasoned recruiter, Jessica has more than 20 years of leadership experience in talent acquisition.

She also hosts the Jess Get Hired Podcast, a weekly career advice show.

A strong personal brand can make a big difference in your job search.

How good is yours?

Join us next Wednesday when Jessica Fiesta George and I talk about personal branding 101 for job seekers.

Until next time, thanks for letting us help you find your dream job.

This show is produced by Mac’s List.

Susan Thornton-Hough schedules our guests and writes our newsletter. Lisa Kislingbury Anderson manages our social media.

Our sound engineer and editor is Matt Fiorillo. Dawn Mole creates our transcripts. And our music is by Freddy Trujillo.

This is Mac Prichard. See you next week.