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Why You Need to Think About Your Career Backwards, with Susan Towers

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Do you have career goals? More importantly, do you have a plan on exactly how you’ll achieve those goals? Find Your Dream Job guest Susan Towers says you need to start planning early in your career, as time slips by quickly, and you don’t want to waste opportunities to further yourself. Susan suggests journaling and self-awareness to help gain clarity on where you want to be in 10, 15, or 20 years. What can you do now to get there? What skills can you gain, and more importantly, what sacrifices are you willing to make in order to make those goals a reality?

About Our Guest:

Susan Towers is the founder of Sandymount Search. 

Resources in This Episode:

Transcript

Find Your Dream Job, Episode 460:

Why You Need to Think About Your Career Backwards, with Susan Towers

Airdate: July 24, 2024

Mac Prichard:

This is Find Your Dream Job, the podcast that helps you get hired, have the career you want, and make a difference in life.

I’m your host, Mac Prichard. I’m also the founder of Mac’s List. It’s a job board in the Pacific Northwest that helps you find a fulfilling career.

Every Wednesday, I talk to a different expert about the tools you need to get the work you want.

You have a career goal.

But you know you don’t have the necessary experience and skills to get there right now.

A technique called reverse mapping, however, can help you figure out what to do next.

Susan Towers is here to talk about why you need to think about your career backwards.

She’s the founder of Sandymount Search.

Her company offers search, recruiting, and career services for executives.

Susan joins us from Portland, Oregon.

Well, Susan, here’s where I want to start, let’s talk about what you mean exactly when you say people need to think about a career backwards. What do you have in mind here?

Susan Towers:

Well, Mac, I think very early in our careers, we’re often just trying to figure things out. A lot of us spend our early 20s trying to figure out where exactly we want to focus our attention on. If you’ve graduated in a professional career. For example, if you’re a doctor or a lawyer, it’s probably a little bit more linear and clear what your career path might be, but for many people that I work with in marketing or in other sectors or areas, they find themselves accumulating different kinds of experiences.

Maybe they try out a couple of different areas and just growing their network, for example, beginning to really figure out what’s important to them, and when you think about our work lives, it’s where we spend so much of our time, and you really want to think about the big picture.

You know, I sometimes joke with people and say, for example, social media companies today are almost all like the tobacco companies of my youth. There are questions that people have now around the ethics of AI, even or social media, and so I think many people want to factor in their values, how they want to lead their lives, and what kind of a typical day might look like in their lives and how that’s going to balance out with the other areas of their life.

For example, if you’re a working mother or if you’re a dad or whatever it is that you might be doing or if you have a particular passion outside of work and you want to be able to go and have some kind of flexible schedule to indulge in. All of these things are really important to think about.

Mac Prichard:

When you consider those factors, and you’re thinking about where you might want to be in 15, 5, or 20 years, how can looking at your career backwards, using techniques like reverse mapping, help you accomplish that and take those ideas and values into account?

Susan Towers:

That’s a great question. I think one of the most important things that I’ve learned over the years is this idea of setting goals for yourself. I used to work a lot in the design realm, and we use not just reverse mapping but design thinking, and there’s a been a lot of research that’s been done that shows how you think or plan something out is very influential on the outcome that you’re going to get.

Big picture, you want to think about your skills and your experience, and where that opportunity might lie, and also any skills gap or professional qualifications you might need to add in to get to where you want to go. You want to think, really, about talent and training. Do you have a particular gift for what you do? Are you an introvert or an extrovert?

It’s really important to think about these, both personal circumstances and then maybe what trade-offs you are or are not willing to make. I think that you need to do a little bit of self-reflection and know yourself. A bit of journaling, a bit of meditation, maybe even working with a coach sometimes, if you’re feeling unsure about that. Sometimes, if you’re really focused on it yourself the whole time, it can be really difficult to see both your own skills but maybe even your own gaps.

I think it’s great if you have people who know you well who can give you feedback or an assessment or, absent that, to consider working with a professional career advisor or you know, sometimes, I encourage people to take some of these personality or professional assessments which can help you to realize what’s your appetite for risk.

For example, would you be the entrepreneurial type who’s going to go out and start a business, or are you more risk averse? For example, most chief financial officers or CPAs that I speak to tend to be quite risk-averse. It’s important to understand both yourself and what will make you happy in the day-to-day and really consider these things as you move forward.

And back to your point; when you think about the end result and you look backwards, you’ll also just be able to plan those steps that you need to take. For example, we’ve seen the realm of marketing really evolve over the last 5-8 years in terms of the technology that people are now using, and so 15-20 years ago, when I first worked in marketing, it was very much about the brand or the brand vision or the brand strategy, and now an awful lot of marketing roles are very much driven by the tech stack.

By the demand gen and funnel that people are creating and building, and there are some marketers who I know have really kept up with the technology and are very interested in that, and there are others who shy away from it, and I think that you’ve got to understand where your future opportunity might lie. Are you going to become more of a demand gen marketer that’s going to work with the head of revenue, the chief revenue officer? Or are you going to be more of a brand visionary where you’re the guardian of the image, the brand identity, all of that?

There are different areas that you can go towards, but I think it’s important to understand, with the technology advancing so rapidly, where are you going to be able to add value and stay current and make sure that you’re going to get to where you want to go at the end of the day.

Mac Prichard:

When you want to look backwards on your career, how far do you recommend, Susan, that someone project forward if they’re, say, 10 years into the workplace? Perhaps they’re about 30. Should they be looking 30 years ahead and trying to step back and think, “Well, what do I want to be doing in my 50s, my 40s, my 30s”? How far do you recommend that people project?

Susan Towers:

For somebody who’s around the age of, let’s say, 30, as an example, those next fifteen years are crucial. First of all, they’re often the biggest earning years of your career, so I do actually think that it’s hard when you’re 30 to envision what 60 might look like. You know, when I was 30, 60 seemed like a very, very long way off, and it’s coming up fast now, like, time goes quickly.

I think that certainly, at least at that early to mid-career stage you want to focus on the next 10-15, and then you can break it down as you think about the specific actions that you might take to where you want to go. You can then break it down into a series of steps.

Let’s say, for example, you were an assistant brand manager at a company at the age of 30 or something; what are the steps that you need to make to become a brand manager or a VP of brand marketing? Whatever that might be. You can look both in the company that you’re in, potentially, if you’re working for a much bigger enterprise or organization. Let’s say that you’re working at a top brand. We’re here in Portland, so at Nike, or you’re down in Atlanta and working at Coca-Cola or something.

They often have fairly steady career plans for their executive teams, but if you’re working in a smaller business, you know, we have a lot of small to medium-sized businesses in the region that we’re in, the Pacific Northwest, maybe you want to think strategically about the professional moves that you need to make. I am a big fan of not staying too long at the one place.

I think it’s great to show commitment and to stay in a job for a number of years, but I do think that once you go over, for example, a ten-year commitment to a company, then you kind of turn into a lifer in a way. It’s going to be very difficult for you to change, and I also think that we learn so much from working with other people and seeing how other companies and other teams manage their businesses and their progress.

I think it’s important to take stock every couple of years and see what kind of progress you’re making and if you need to make a strategic move within the industry, for example, or the business.

Mac Prichard:

Terrific.

We’re going to take a break, Susan. When we come back, I know that there’s a set of questions that you encourage people to take as they do this planning and look backwards on their career. I want to walk through them.

Stay with us. When we return, Susan Towers will continue to share her advice on why you need to think about your career backwards.

We’re back in the Mac’s List studio. I’m talking with Susan Towers.

She’s the founder of Sandymount Search.

Her company offers search, recruiting, and career services for executives.

Susan joins us from Portland, Oregon.

Now, Susan, before the break, we were talking about why you need to think about your career backwards, and in the first segment, you took us through why someone should do this and how to do it.

I know that you have a set of questions that you encourage people to ask. Let’s talk about those questions that you recommend listeners consider when thinking about their career backwards.

Let’s start with self-awareness and again, you touched on this in the first segment, but why is it important to be self-aware when you’re doing this kind of reverse mapping?

Susan Towers:

Well, I think you’ve got to be very realistic about what you can offer and also what the

expectations are in the market these days. You know, if you’ve got to do further studies or training, maybe go back to school or get further qualified for something, that might take a financial commitment or a time commitment that is pretty onerous for some people. If, for example, they’re trying to take care of a family or commuting.

I think also, you have to be aware that not everybody gets to do what we’re most passionate about, 9-5 or 8-4. Some people are artists, and they are passionate about a particular area, but due to the geographic region or whatever, the opportunities just aren’t there. Maybe you have to take a job that you enjoy, that you like your colleagues, that you can make a contribution, but you find artistic fulfillment in your own time, or on the weekends, or you volunteer and really get some more greater personal satisfaction from doing stuff outside of the day-to-day.

Some jobs are financially a means to an end, and you have to work with the realistic possibilities of what you can do.

Mac Prichard:

What’s the best way to address and resolve these questions as you consider them? You laid out a lot of different scenarios there. What have you seen work with the people that you work with as a recruiter?

Susan Towers:

Some people fall into a job early on in their career, and they sort of go down a path, and then they find themselves waking up one day and really having a bit of an existential crisis. It’s this: “Is this really something that I love to do? Is this something that fulfills me?” I encourage people to take some time; it can be on a weekend or whatever. I do think that journaling can be very, very helpful. I do think that the professional services offered by coaches, the right coach, in particular, can be very helpful.

I think, really, you just need to be self-aware, like I said, in terms of, are you an extrovert or an introvert? Do you like to work as part of a team, or are you happier being more of an individual contributor? Would you like to manage other people? That’s a key question, and in many companies, in order to progress and become more senior, you need to be good at managing a team, and some people don’t enjoy that.

I think that the other thing that you really want to consider is what are the kinds of challenges that you’re going to face in terms of getting up to the very senior levels, if you have personal ambition in that way. Are you going to be willing to move geographically? Are you going to be willing to maybe go overseas? If that’s going to be what it takes, for example, for a global company to get up near the top, often, you’ll have to be prepared to move. Sometimes, that can be complicated. If you have a working spouse, for example.

I think all of these questions are out there, and you just have to take a little bit of time, I think, write it out and plan it out, and come back to it every so often and revisit it and see if anything has changed. Your circumstances, your situation, or maybe the industry that you’re in.

One of the things that I think is really happening quickly at the moment is the impact of technology. Particularly, for example, AI, which everyone is talking about right now. Short of thinking that tons of jobs are going to go away, I don’t truly believe that; I do think that it’s going to be a very powerful tool and powerful assistant that can maybe free us up from certain mundane tasks and allow us a little bit more time to think about what we find super interesting and what can, for example, strategically drive a business and get the kind of results that you want.

Mac Prichard:

How do you take those external factors, like changes in industry or maybe the state of the economy, into consideration when you’re doing this kind of career planning? When you’re projecting where you want to be in 10, 20, 30 years, and working backwards? How do you do that?

Susan Towers:

There’s three pieces of advice that I give to everybody.

The first one is to be curious, to keep that lifelong curiosity about what’s happening out in the world. I think it’s so important to keep abreast of current affairs, to listen to the news, to read newspapers, to read books. I really think that kind of lifelong learning and lifelong curiosity is going to be incredibly important.

I also think that building a professional and personal network that can help you discuss some of these questions and keep you abreast of opportunities is also really important. Sometimes, there are great mentorship programs within a business, which can be fantastic, but if you can build your network with colleagues of your own cohort, and then as they progress and move up and maybe shift to other companies, that network keeps on expanding.

I think it’s really important to be aware of those three things. Curiosity, continuous learning, and that community that you can build. The three Cs, I think that’s really important to pursue throughout your life, no matter what you do.

Mac Prichard:

As you do this planning throughout your career, and you think about where you want to be in the future and reflect back on what it’s going to take for you to get there. How often should you revisit these plans? Is this something that you do on an annual basis? Every couple of years?

Susan Towers:

I think an annual basis is great. Some people are journaling daily and thinking about these things all the time. I personally don’t have the bandwidth or discipline to do that, but certainly, once a year, I think it’s important. I personally like to do it before the new year starts, so recently, at the end of December. I think it’s a great time to do it at that time of year.

I think just ask yourself, what will you regret not having done if you don’t do this? What would you regret not having learned? I think that as you get older, you start thinking a little bit about your legacy and what that might look like or what do you want to model if you have kids? What do you want to model for your children?

I think these are the types of questions that will help you come to some good answers.

Mac Prichard:

Should people be surprised if, over the course of time, their plans change as they progress through their career? Is it really impossible to project decades in advance?

Susan Towers:

Of course. I mean, I never thought I would end up living in the Pacific Northwest, for example. I think you’ve just got to be willing to roll with things a little bit. If there’s anything that the pandemic taught us, it’s that we never know when those curve balls are going to come out of left field, and who could’ve imagined the changes that would impact our lives over the last five years?

I think you’ve got to learn to get a little bit comfortable with discomfort, to try and stay in the present moment, yes, but also keep your eye on what’s happening further out in your life and how you’re going to get there.

Mac Prichard:

Finally, you mentioned legacy a moment ago. How should you think about your legacy when you’re doing this kind of career planning, thinking ahead to the future and where you want to be?

Susan Towers:

That’s a good point. I think for some people, it can be about nurturing the next generation, so by being a mentor themselves, that can be very important to people. I think that you always want to keep your professional reputation in mind. You want to build your own brand carefully.

I think you really need to be very careful these days about the pitfalls of professional reputation. I have seen a couple of very experienced and senior people in industries who have made some really horrific mistakes by posting mindlessly online, on their Instagram account, or on LinkedIn or whatever else. I think that you need to be very aware nowadays that everyone is just a keystroke or two away from a bully pulpit, and maybe ask yourself, “Does this need to be said? Does it need to be said by me? Does this need to be said right now?”

I think that you really need to be aware of those things, but you’ve got to be authentic and true to yourself. If you see something that’s problematic, speak up. You’ve got to be able to live with yourself, and you’ve got to be true to your own values, and that’s definitely very important.

Mac Prichard:

It’s been a great conversation, Susan. Now, tell us, what’s next for you?

Susan Towers:

Well, having launched Sandymount Search last year, I’m really just focused on building my executive search practice. I’m super excited about the AI space that I’m doing my work in, and I just love talking to candidates and clients about the business of connecting talent to opportunity.

Mac Prichard:

Terrific. Well, I know listeners can learn more about you and your work by visiting the Sandymount Search website. That URL is www.sandymountsearch.com, and that you also invite listeners to connect with you on LinkedIn. As always, when they reach out to you there, I hope they’ll mention that they heard you on Find Your Dream Job.

Now, Susan, given all of the great advice that you’ve shared with us today, what’s the one thing you want a listener to remember about why you need to think about your career backwards?

Susan Towers:

You know, having a meaningful career takes up a lot of our time, so you want to spend that time doing something that really you can be passionate about and you’re curious about. Take the time to plan it out.

Mac Prichard:

Next week, our guest will be Caroline Ceniza Levine.

She’s a speaker, a writer, and the founder of the DreamCareerClub.com.

Her company helps experienced professionals find work they love and earn more doing it.

Many openings never get posted on job boards like Mac’s List, Indeed, or LinkedIn.

These positions are part of the hidden job market.

Join us next Wednesday when Caroline Ceniza-Levine and I talk about three ways to find your next job in the hidden job market.

Until next time, thanks for letting us help you find your dream job.

This show is produced by Mac’s List.

Susan Thornton-Hough schedules our guests and writes our newsletter. Lisa Kislingbury Anderson manages our social media.

Our sound engineer and editor is Matt Fiorillo. Dawn Mole creates our transcripts. And our music is by Freddy Trujillo.

This is Mac Prichard. See you next week.