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How to Sell Yourself in a Job Interview When Changing Careers, with Mpume Ncube-Daka

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Changing career fields can be tricky; you have to convince a hiring manager that your previous skills can be transferred to their company. How do you do that? You start by getting clear on what those skills are, says Find Your Dream Job guest Mpume Ncube-Daka, and sharing specific examples of how they translate to the new field. Mpume recommends using self-assessments to clarify your strengths and weaknesses. And lastly, be prepared to ask the questions that inform you if the employer can match your values and must-haves. 

About Our Guest:

Mpume Ncube-Daka is a coach, a podcast host, and the founder and CEO of  About Change Conversations.

Resources in This Episode:

Transcript

Find Your Dream Job, Episode 408:

How to Sell Yourself in a Job Interview When Changing Careers, with Mpume Ncube-Daka

Airdate: July 19, 2023

Mac Prichard:

This is Find Your Dream Job, the podcast that helps you get hired, have the career you want, and make a difference in life.

I’m your host, Mac Prichard. I’m also the founder of Mac’s List. It’s a job board in the Pacific Northwest that helps you find a fulfilling career.

Every Wednesday, I talk to a different expert about the tools you need to get the work you want.

Find Your Dream Job is brought to you by TopResume. TopResume has helped more than 400,000 professionals land more interviews and get hired faster.

Get a free review of your resume today.

Go to macslist.org/topresume.

You’re ready to leave your old profession and move into a new field.

How do you persuade employers in your new sector that you’ve got the right mix of skills and experience?

Mpume Ncube-Daka is here to talk about how to sell yourself in a job interview when changing careers.

She’s a coach, a podcast host, and the founder and CEO of About Change Conversations.

Her company enhances your competencies across your career and helps organizations bring out your best capabilities.

She joins us from Johannesburg, South Africa.

Well, let’s jump right into it, Mpume. Why do employers care, or rather what do employers care about most when interviewing candidates who want to change careers?

Mpume Ncuba-Daka:

They actually care that you can bring value into the space that you want to join in, and they worry whether you’ve got the right skills to be able to do that. So it is important that, as a candidate, you then have to be able to demonstrate that you’ve got a skill to pick up the role that the employer is actually advertising.

Mac Prichard:

What stops employers from considering people who want to switch careers when they get applications from candidates like that?

Mpume Ncuba-Daka:

It’s sometimes about experience. So as a candidate that is changing careers, you really need to do a lot of work to sell yourself and to demonstrate that you’re coming in and you’re going to be showing a different way of thinking, as well as the fact that you’ve got the skills that you can be able to transfer to the new field that you’re looking at. And if you’re not showing that quite nicely, they will doubt whether you’ll be capable.

Mac Prichard:

I expect in your coaching work, I hear this from candidates occasionally, too, Mpume, people often will say, why do I need to sell myself at all? Shouldn’t my credentials, particularly my educational credentials and past experience, speak for themselves?

Mpume Ncuba-Daka:

In any other case, definitely. But when you’re changing careers, it becomes tricky, and the reason being, so let me make an example for you. If you’re moving, maybe out of a finance career into a marketing career, you really need to showcase what the skills are that you’re bringing in there. And you might not have the definite experience that the employer is looking for. So you definitely have to sell yourself.

Mac Prichard:

In your experience, are most applicants comfortable selling themselves in the job interview?

Mpume Ncuba-Daka:

To a point, they are. But I think most of them do need coaching, and when you’re changing careers, Mac, the biggest thing is also believing that it is possible for you to move out of one career stream to another. Because if you don’t believe that it’s possible, then you lack the confidence to be able to have those conversations with your potential employer.

Mac Prichard:

What stops applicants from believing that they can change from one career to another?

Mpume Ncuba-Daka:

Some of it is maybe not having seen a lot of people do it or just thinking because most spaces we talk about experience more than anything else. So somebody will say, I do not have the experience, or they will say, I am not ticking all of the boxes on the job description, and sometimes, it’s not about doing that. Sometimes, it’s about looking at the job description and saying to yourself, what is it that I can do to demonstrate that I can do this job, even if I have not done it before?

Mac Prichard:

You mentioned seeing other people make a switch, and also looking at the job description and reflecting on how your experiences can help you accomplish those responsibilities is two examples of how to get that belief in your ability to change careers.

What are other steps you’ve seen candidates take successfully to get that confidence that they can indeed change careers?

Mpume Ncuba-Daka:

It’s also about knowing who you are. So when you’re self-aware and know who you are, mainly within the work environment, it really helps. And to demonstrate that, are you the type of person who is a good team player? Are you a type of person who’s got the technical skills that they might be looking for, but you might have applied those technical skills in a different environment?

Are you the type of person who wants to work on their own? Are you good with detail? Or are you more of a strategic thinker? So knowing your skills and your strengths also then helps you to be able to identify whether you are able to move into that new role that you might be exploring.

Mac Prichard:

I know that self-awareness, which you’ve just described, is an important tip that you share with your clients who want to change careers and want to sell themselves in a job interview.

How do you recommend when you work with people that they get that clarity, Mpume? What have you seen to be effective?

Mpume Ncuba-Daka:

So I allude a lot of – I’m an Enneagram practitioner. So I also use the Enneagram assessment as part of the process because sometimes you ask people, and they really they know themselves to a point. But when they do some of these assessments, they also discover things as they read that report. You hear them saying, oh my God, this is so me, and there are some revelations that actually come with that.

So, also just taking some assessment, actually, I find it very helpful. And that can either really showcase some of the blindspots that you might have about yourself, and it becomes clear. It might also showcase some triggers; it might also showcase why you behave the way you behave, either in your personal space or in the work environment. So taking all of those things into account and reflecting on them actually then makes you understand more of who you are as an individual.

Mac Prichard:

So you do that self-assessment, you find these tools online, or perhaps you work with a career professional like yourself, you do that reflection. How do you apply what you learned from these self-assessments and that reflection to the interview room? And persuade the employer and sell yourself that you are the best candidate for the job?

Mpume Ncuba-Daka:

So, you need to be able to, because now you’re self-aware, and then be able to align that into the new career that you’re exploring. And that alignment is the one thing that then gives you the confidence to be able to then sell yourself into that room when you are now selling yourself. Because now, if you’re confident on what it is and who you are in this true self-awareness, it makes it easier for you to have the conversation, and you can even make examples about how you show up and how you deal with things in a work environment, because there’s this alignment that you’ve also accessed for yourself, based on the career that you want to walk into.

Mac Prichard:

Can employers tell if you don’t have that alignment when you’re talking with them in the interview room? And if they can, how does that affect their perception of you as a candidate?

Mpume Ncuba-Daka:

I think they can tell to a point because there’s some authenticity that needs to come through, and there’s an element of them as a senior personality as well. So depending on how you’re answering, there is an element of really seeing through you because if you also showcase with examples, then it makes it tangible, and somebody can visualize you in that particular role that they are interviewing for.

Mac Prichard:

Well, terrific. We’re gonna take a break, Mpume. When we come back, stay with us. Mpume, Ncuba-Daka will continue to share her advice on how to sell yourself in a job interview when you’re changing careers.

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Now, let’s get back to the show.

We’re back in the Mac’s List studio. I’m talking with Mpume Ncube-Daka.

She’s a coach, a podcast host, and the founder and CEO of About Change Conversations.

Her company enhances your competencies across your career and helps organizations bring out your best capabilities.

She joins us from Johannesburg, South Africa.

Well, Mpume, before our break, we were talking about how to sell yourself in a job interview when changing careers, and we talked about some of the common challenges candidates face when they’re in that interview room, trying to persuade an employer that it makes sense to hire them for this new career, and you talked about the importance of self-awareness as a good first step for selling yourself in the interview room.

I know another recommendation you have is to understand your values and how they match the company and career you want, and you touched on this a little bit in the first segment. Tell us more about that. How does understanding your values help you sell yourself in a job interview when you’re making a career change?

Mpume Ncuba-Daka:

It is very important, Mac because your values are at the core of who you are, and basically, what I usually say to people, you also don’t want to be changing careers if you’re not aligned with the career. So I always make, I call it, a stupid example.

But if, for an example, family is one of your biggest values. If you now want to change and get into a sales career, for an example, and maybe a sales career that makes you travel, and you’ll barely at home. You’ll barely spend time with your family. What that might lead to is you might be very misaligned with that career, and when you are, then you get very frustrated because there’s no fulfillment, and you’re basically grinding against that particular value.

So knowing your values. And then, saying the careers that I’m choosing to move into, how do they align becomes important? As well as, then assessing that also with the companies that you want to work for.

Mac Prichard:

As we talk, alignment keeps something up again and again, doesn’t it, Mpume?

Mpume Ncuba-Daka:

Yes.

Mac Prichard:

You’ve got to be clear about what you want and how it matches what the employer offers. Do most candidates, especially when making a career change, do this kind of work?

Mpume Ncuba-Daka:

Yes and no. But I think when you do work with a coach, it’s not something that somebody will just think about. But it also becomes about what is the thing that is driving you to want to change careers. If you’re clear about that and what it is that you’re looking for, then the alignment conversation becomes easier. Because if you’ve just been unfulfilled, you know that you’ve been hating what you’ve been doing, then you are very guided moving forward.

And you literally have a strategy to say, how am I going to change this career? Because now I want to be fulfilled. And I want to stay longer in the next career that I’m exploring.

Mac Prichard:

When you have that clarity, it helps you determine how your values align with the company’s needs. But how does clarity also help you in the interview room in selling yourself when you’re making a career change? What are the other benefits of having that clarity about what you want to do next in your career?

Mpume Ncuba-Daka:

That clarity helps you because when, so I always say to people that I work with, when you go for an interview, you are also interviewing the organization that you want to work for. So that clarity also helps you to be able to assess whether that organization is the organization that you want to work for.

Because you can then be able to ask the right questions to get a sense whether this is the environment that you actually want to walk into. Is this the career that you really want? Is there career growth? Whatever it is that’s important to you. Then you get the opportunity to be able to ask that. Because if you are not clear, the thing is, how are you going to sell yourself? And how are you going to assess whether the role is the role that you want to take or not?

Mac Prichard:

In your experience, Mpume, how do employers react, especially in conversations when someone’s changing careers, to a candidate who does what you just recommended, interviewing the employer themselves? What kind of reaction do you typically see in the interview room? And how does that help you when you’re changing careers?

Mpume Ncuba-Daka:

So I think, for me, I haven’t been somebody that has interviewed a lot of people when I was in corporate. I really appreciated a candidate that had a lot of questions because I also knew that they’ve taken time to explore what the organization is about, and they also want a lot of information so that they’re able to make the decision.

So, for me, what was the biggest thing is that as an employer, I also don’t want somebody who’s going to walk in, and within three months, they’ve decided this is not what they want. Because I’ve spent a lot of energy, and money, and time trying to employ them, which means that if they leave in three months, I must then go back to the market. So I rather appreciate that they are coming in, and they’ve got a lot of questions because they are also trying to assess if this is the right space for them.

Mac Prichard:

Another tip you have for applicants who are selling themselves in the interview room during a career change is to show how you will fit into the culture of the company. Why is it important to do this, Mpume? And how do you do it?

Mpume Ncuba-Daka:

So showing how you will fit because sometimes people do not get roles. Not because they are not good at it. It’s because the employer doesn’t get a sense that they will fit the culture. So you need to do the research on what is the culture of that organization. Or even maybe the industry that you’re going into, and that clarity is also important because then, as you are interviewing, you are then assessing, and the employer’s also assessing whether you fit in the culture.

I just remember being a potential employer sitting there going; this person will never survive any of those executive meetings. Or this person, just the way they speak, the language that they’re using is not what we expect in this organization. So those things also matter a lot, and you then need to be able to do a lot of research.

And how do you do some of that research? Find ways to speak to people that are already working for the organization that you might be wanting to interview for, or even find people – so I talk a lot about having informational interviews with people that are already either in the career that you want to move into or in the company or, as well, as in the industry that you want to explore.

Mac Prichard:

When you’re in that interview, I know you think it’s important to come into the interview room with case studies, examples that can show you can do what the new job requires, and this is especially important when changing careers. How do you collect these case studies, Mpume? And what’s the best way to use them in the interview?

Mpume Ncuba-Daka:

So look at the projects that you’ve worked on and assess how you think you can apply them in the new career that you’re moving into, and you might not have to use the full case study as is. But you can take bits and pieces of what you believe is important and what you think can add value into the space that you want to move into. So let’s make an example.

You’re coming out of finance, and now you want to work in marketing. How do you demonstrate how you can transfer that financial skill in some of the case, that is, maybe in your previous job in finance, you’ve worked a lot with the marketing people? You’ve helped them with budgets. You’ve helped them do some analytics. You’ve helped them do calculations on pending investments. If you’re able to demonstrate that, you might not have done marketing, per se, but you’ve got a very good understanding of what happens in that space. That one is always a very good skill that you can show, and then you can showcase with some of those case studies, for an example.

Mac Prichard:

Well, it’s been a terrific conversation, Mpume. Tell us, what’s next for you?

Mpume Ncuba-Daka:

So yeah, I’m currently working a lot with business schools. So I’m busy. I’m very passionate about lecturing, and I do a lot of group coaching with the business schools, so I’m really exploring that space and just working with executive students and people that are getting their MBAs and other executive programs. It’s something that I’m quite passionate about, and lecturing in those spaces.

Mac Prichard:

Well, terrific. I know listeners can learn more about you and your work by visiting your website, changeconversations.co.za, and we’ll be sure to include that in the show notes, as well.

Now, Mpume, given all of the great advice you’ve shared today, what’s the one thing you want a listener to remember about how to sell yourself in a job interview when changing careers?

Mpume Ncuba-Daka:

Know yourself. Self-awareness is important. Do a lot of research on the new role and the new career that you want to do. And walk in there, show a lot of confidence, and showcase your skills, and you’ll stand a good chance of getting that job.

Mac Prichard:

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Next week, our guest will be Elizabeth Robillard.

She’s the founder of Negotiating at Work. Her company offers coaching, consulting, and practical advice on how to manage your career and negotiate for yourself.

You’ve received a job offer. And once you get the salary figure, you want to say yes, right?

Think again, says Elizabeth.

You also need to look at other factors like benefits, workplace flexibility, and opportunities for growth.

Join us next Wednesday when Elizabeth Robillard and I talk about why you need to think about more than money when negotiating a job offer.

Until next time, thanks for letting us help you find your dream job.

This show is produced by Mac’s List.

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Our sound engineer is Matt Fiorillo. Ryan Morrison at Podfly Productions edits the show. Dawn Mole creates our transcripts. And our music is by Freddy Trujillo.

This is Mac Prichard. See you next week.